LaBTop (Moderator)
07-22-00 22:16
No 31801
      Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

Newsbriefs edited by Agnes Shanley.
The U.S. Energy Dept. (Washington, D.C.), is supporting research at Mississippi State Univ. (Starkville) evaluating use of hydrates to store natural gas. The technique,which involves submerging gas under water then freezing it, allows over 180 ft3 of gas to be stored in 1 ft3 of hydrate, says chemical engineering professor Rudy Rogers.
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That opens new ways of using NH3 gas in NaBH4, Hydrogenations etc, no need for solvents, or much less, perhaps higher yields. Especially the NaBH4 to MDA.
What would the hydrate interfere with, any ideas? LT/

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    Alphabeta121
(Hive Bee)
07-22-00 23:55
No 31831
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

if i remember correctly methane hydrates only form at intense pressure, possibly enough to crystalize it w/ waters of crystallization.

alphabeta121

 
 
 
 
    halfapint
(Newbee)
08-15-00 06:54
No 41007
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

They're talking about submerging gas way under water. Deep. That is a lot of pressure. Then it'll be fine, while it stays cold. The one teeny-weeny little problem they're going to have with this proposal is that gas hydrates are shock sensitive. At some overpressure of shock they destabilize, quite thoroughly throughout the contiguous material, with total release of gas. The gas suddenly remembers that 150 volumes are packed into one volume capacity, and makes a big hole in the overburden on its way to free air. It charges up through the ocean in a cloud of bubbles, rendering the water density too low for flotation, causing ships, fish and whales to fall to lethal depths. Then it hits the atmosphere, where it's not wanted. The plan is stupid, because one failure mode involves way big catastrophe.

Half-a-Pint


Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.
 
 
 
 
    Hematite
(Hive Bee)
08-29-00 12:41
No 46634
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

That was a wicked description of the possibilities there Halfpint, I was totally submerged and seeing it all occur for a brief moment there. Kinda had a great onomatapoeic association, or I'm more completely clubbed than I think I am....I enjoyed it anyway.


Regards, Hematite.
 
 
 
 
    Osmium
(Stonium's / Changer)
08-30-00 00:35
No 46855
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

Methane hydrate: CH4.4H2O
Usually found in 500-900m depth in the oceans, at a temp around 1C
Not uncommon at all, in fact there is twice as much methane hydrate on this planet than all known deposits of coal, oil and gas combined. In the pacific, in front of the Oregon coast there are huge mountains of pure methane hydrate. The formation is about 25km long, with mountains as high as 500m. It can be found all over the world, like in the Bermuda triangle (explains all those lost ships and airplanes). In Canada, north of the arctic circle huge deposits are expected to exist. Only problem is that nobody has found a way yet to exploit them. Drilling into it and trying to melt it could cause catastrophic accidents, since that material is quite unstable, and once such a deposit decides to evaporate you will be in deep shit because your ship won't float anymore and sink faster than a dropping stone. Such an eruption of methane might cause huge flood waves and asphyxiate all living creatures nearby, or even a powerful explosion.

Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas causing the earth to heat up. When the temperatures of the oceans continues to rise lots of that methane might be released to the athmosphere, causing even more global warming. Shit bees, this sounds really bad. Remember, you read it here first. Os warned you all  long before greenpeace did wink
 
 
 
 
    Fuchem
(Skink Bard)
09-28-00 00:43
No 55295
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   


or even a powerful explosion.


That's what I'd like to see. Perhaps build a fleet of buoys equipped with depth charges. String them for miles along the main concentrations of hydrates. Have them drop their depth charges simultaneously. When the charges detonate, hydrate is destabilized thus rising to the surface. Upon surface destabilization, helium ballons mounted in pyrotechnic modules atop the buoys deploy, modulating their altitude through precision valvature. Baloons would rise to 25-50 feet above surface and deploy magnesium or Ti flares thus igniting the liberated gas. One fuck of a fourth of July!
Anybody wanna chip in on the costs with me,
Fuchem



"To be the sum of all parts, in one place, at one time" - Andrew Graybeal
 
 
 
 
    GED
(Hive Bee)
09-28-00 18:05
No 55495
      Re: Hydrates for gas storage?  Bookmark   

I do not have a reference for this, as I heard it on the radio, while driving.
 For years, cleaner burning fuels for automobiles have been investigated.
 Hydrogen is the ideal fuel. Two small problems are cost and safe storage of the compressed gas.
 Someone has developed a "plastic" that absorbs many times it's volume in H2, thus making for a safer fuel tank, in the event of a collision.

 An alternative use for such a "plastic" might be interesting ?
 Or maybe not.

 Sorry I can not give more info. It was one of those quick little stories on the news, with no details.

 On an unrelated note:
 Some years ago, a small but deep lake in Africa belched up a volume of nasty gas, killing native villagers in the area.
 Scientist were called in and concluded that warming of the upper layer of water allowed gas trapped in the colder deep layers to escape suddenly.
 
 And:
 A research ship in the Pacific spotted bubbles raising from the ocean and sailed over to investigate.
 Their ship almost sank, as they entered the bubbles. After doing a quick U-turn, they checked things out from a safer distance. The conclusion was methane gas, if I remember right.
 The volume and frequency of these natural releases can only be guessed at, but may well dwarf mankinds efforts to pollute the planet.

 And yes:
 I watch entirely too much TV :)
 
 Maybe someone with better research skills can find something on this H2 absorbing "plastic" ?