dormouse (Member)
04-20-00 19:28
No 108338
      drone 342 - getting out the spots! -MukiBear  Bookmark   


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Author  Topic:   drone 342 - getting out the spots! 
MukiBear
Member   posted 05-17-98 02:14 PM          
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So spake the drone in the Chemist Blues talk:
"Without question -- the youngest one here! No need to get into details, let's just say a lot of you are more than twice my age. Okay, 19.

Gawd, I love being young!"

And then it spake again, in the MDP2Pol discussion:

"As for spending the needed time in the library, I "came up" with this one independantly years ago as well (though dozens of published scientists wrote about similar reactions decades before all of us knew anything), did all the footwork, got all the ref's, and have continued to do so ever since with reaction after reaction."

It seems we have ourselves a child prodigy, doing master's organic chem at 16! A veritable Punky Brewster of the test tube set. So tell Muki, Doogie Howser, PhD, if one were to hypothetically have this solution with a some H'spots where they don't belong, and want them out, what concentration of bleach would one use, and how would you recommend reducing it?

Muki's chemistry sucks, though he could find this out for himself. If he does, it goes on usenet in Muki's name, steal your magic. If we can work together, Muki might tell you about using Birch reductions to replace that nasty reductive amination with Hg you dislike so...Think about it - MDP2Pol in liquid methylamine and dissolved Li. Will it add? Will it not? Why couldn't the universe just speak Sanskrit like it did last time, woe!


drone 342
Member   posted 05-17-98 06:15 PM          
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Gawd, I was waiting for someone to point out that age thing. PhD chemistry this ain't, but I thank you for the complement. Let's just say private schools have their educational advantages. So does being genetically engineered for a science career (I'll be the 8th generation in my family with a degree, 3rd in the hard sciences.)
For the oxidizing solution (the cat's out of the bag, I might as well not pretend it ain't), what I do is vacuum distill off water from the solution until iut reaches a point of saturation. Doing this in vacuo has several advantages. One, it goes faster. Two, it doesn't stink as bad (nicer working conditions.)

Now what's this nonsense about reduciong MDP-2Pol? Why would you want to do that? What do you have in mind? You've peaked my curiosity.

-drone #342


drone 342
Member   posted 05-17-98 06:15 PM          
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Gawd, I was waiting for someone to point out that age thing. PhD chemistry this ain't, but I thank you for the complement. Let's just say private schools have their educational advantages. So does being genetically engineered for a science career (I'll be the 8th generation in my family with a degree, 3rd in the hard sciences.)
For the oxidizing solution (the cat's out of the bag, I might as well not pretend it ain't), what I do is vacuum distill off water from the solution until iut reaches a point of saturation. Doing this in vacuo has several advantages. One, it goes faster. Two, it doesn't stink as bad (nicer working conditions.)

Now what's this nonsense about reduciong MDP-2Pol? Why would you want to do that? What do you have in mind? You've peaked my curiosity.

-drone #342


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 05-17-98 07:52 PM          
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Muki: I also know a chemist who made honey at the age of 16. Impressive, yes, but possible.


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 05-17-98 07:52 PM          
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Muki: I also know a chemist who made honey at the age of 16. Impressive, yes, but possible.


MukiBear
Member   posted 05-19-98 12:17 AM          
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Muki believes the drone (about the age bit at least) - Muki had his first moment of enlightenment/satori at 16 (in high school chem class, what a cowinkie-dink). This is attributed to lifetiimes of good karma, almost as good as being gengineered, verdad?
Okay, here it goes. Understand that Muki has been doing chem for exactly 6 months...but the honey is just as sweet! (well, actually, it's kinda old by now... see the MDA vs MDMA discussion).

A Birch reduction is done in liquid NH3, right? Pops off that nasty -OH group with dissolved Li. A Birch-Bear is done in the higher amines, methylamine, IPamine, etc. Question - any way to add that methylamine when the -OH runs away with the alkali? This is a question for a REAL chemist - como vosotros, Rhodium and drone 342.


MukiBear
Member   posted 05-19-98 12:17 AM          
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Muki believes the drone (about the age bit at least) - Muki had his first moment of enlightenment/satori at 16 (in high school chem class, what a cowinkie-dink). This is attributed to lifetiimes of good karma, almost as good as being gengineered, verdad?
Okay, here it goes. Understand that Muki has been doing chem for exactly 6 months...but the honey is just as sweet! (well, actually, it's kinda old by now... see the MDA vs MDMA discussion).

A Birch reduction is done in liquid NH3, right? Pops off that nasty -OH group with dissolved Li. A Birch-Bear is done in the higher amines, methylamine, IPamine, etc. Question - any way to add that methylamine when the -OH runs away with the alkali? This is a question for a REAL chemist - como vosotros, Rhodium and drone 342.


Bright Star
Member   posted 05-19-98 11:27 AM          
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It took me four years too get the nerve to try, even the simplest experiments... Some how I feel better knowing our drone isn't the prodigy we all thought...
Paranoia rears its head in strange ways, eh?
But hey... its cool... We would all like to be younger....


Bright Star
Member   posted 05-19-98 11:27 AM          
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It took me four years too get the nerve to try, even the simplest experiments... Some how I feel better knowing our drone isn't the prodigy we all thought...
Paranoia rears its head in strange ways, eh?
But hey... its cool... We would all like to be younger....


Lone Ranger
unregistered   posted 05-19-98 12:03 PM           
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The "Birch - Bear" reduction sounds exactlty like the Benkeser reduction (Li in low moleculat weight amines). Benkeser is more powerful and less selective than Birch (Sythesis, 557, 1972). A comparision can be found on page 391. Selectivity of the "Bear - Benkeser" can be increased with proper solvent selection.
 
Lone Ranger
unregistered   posted 05-19-98 12:03 PM           
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The "Birch - Bear" reduction sounds exactlty like the Benkeser reduction (Li in low moleculat weight amines). Benkeser is more powerful and less selective than Birch (Sythesis, 557, 1972). A comparision can be found on page 391. Selectivity of the "Bear - Benkeser" can be increased with proper solvent selection.
 
drone 342
Member   posted 05-19-98 12:05 PM          
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Muki:
If you're talking from PPA to d-meth, nope. Perhaps some sort of hydroxybromo combination (2-bromo-1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-propane, though maybe the bromo would just get reduced off) would do it. If you're talking about a hydroxyketone, this might actually work if you add the ketone before you add the alkaline metal, so that you'd be reducing the Schiff's base.

Bright Star,

Just what are you saying? I'm not 19, or I'm not a prodigy? Or are you saying I'm not paranoid? I assure you I'm all three.

-drone #342


drone 342
Member   posted 05-19-98 12:05 PM          
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Muki:
If you're talking from PPA to d-meth, nope. Perhaps some sort of hydroxybromo combination (2-bromo-1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-propane, though maybe the bromo would just get reduced off) would do it. If you're talking about a hydroxyketone, this might actually work if you add the ketone before you add the alkaline metal, so that you'd be reducing the Schiff's base.

Bright Star,

Just what are you saying? I'm not 19, or I'm not a prodigy? Or are you saying I'm not paranoid? I assure you I'm all three.

-drone #342


MukiBear
Member   posted 05-19-98 05:17 PM          
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No, drone. Muki wants to know what happens when one does MDP2Pol this way, in liquid methylamine - does one get (iso)safrole or MDMA? The -OH WILL be removed, but will the CH3NH3 add in its place? Why or why not?
Thanks, Peaceout


MukiBear
Member   posted 05-19-98 05:17 PM          
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No, drone. Muki wants to know what happens when one does MDP2Pol this way, in liquid methylamine - does one get (iso)safrole or MDMA? The -OH WILL be removed, but will the CH3NH3 add in its place? Why or why not?
Thanks, Peaceout


Bright Star
Member   posted 05-19-98 05:34 PM          
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No offense drone!!!
I was just feeling a little inferior....

I read your posts and value the input....
I would really like to see an outline for your preferred process...

I missed that oxidizing soln...


Bright Star
Member   posted 05-19-98 05:34 PM          
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No offense drone!!!
I was just feeling a little inferior....

I read your posts and value the input....
I would really like to see an outline for your preferred process...

I missed that oxidizing soln...


drone 342
Member   posted 05-19-98 08:59 PM          
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The OH will be removed, but the methylamine will not add in its place. There are ways of doing this, but with different reagents. I have an article that uses suspended platinum particles in situ as the catalyst (more on all of this later.)
-drone #342


drone 342
Member   posted 05-19-98 08:59 PM          
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The OH will be removed, but the methylamine will not add in its place. There are ways of doing this, but with different reagents. I have an article that uses suspended platinum particles in situ as the catalyst (more on all of this later.)
-drone #342


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