dormouse (Member)
04-23-00 06:02
No 108779
      2,4,6-trinitroamphetamine -doublespeak  Bookmark   


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Author  Topic:   2,4,6-trinitroamphetamine 
doublespeak
Junior Member   posted 08-15-99 01:11 PM          
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To a large amount of Adderral (dextroamphetamine sulphate) dissolved in Everclear there is added a 4 to 5 molar xss of 50 to 70% concentrated
aqueous HNO3 (nitric acid) and the mixture is
slowly brought to a reflux at 90 to 110 C for
one to 3 hours. The crude product is purified and crystallized from H2SO4 and EtOH to make d-2,4,6-trinitroamphetamine sulphate.
Lot's of cheap beer and POTENT hallucinogens!
This is a matter of utmost urgency.
You might even call it a police emergency.

Mary Magdeline, that'd be my first sin.
Being with this temptress...

It's a New Age.
As long as your humble,
Let you be the king of jungle!

I heard my phone ring.
Should I answer?
This is getting serious as terminal cancer.
And that is the final stage.
My primal rage began to rise
And I started to fantasize...

The fire NEXT TIME


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 08-15-99 03:33 PM          
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1) Amphetamine cannot be nitrated by 50-70% nitric acid - it is too deactivated for that (compare the synthesis of TNT, which requires 99% HNO3).
2) I doubt that the side chain of amphetamine would survive the conditions needed for the successful nitration of the ring.

3) I can assure you that trinitroamphetamine is completely inactive, both as a hallucinogen and a stimulant.


Wizard X
Moderator   posted 08-15-99 09:09 PM          
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I agree with your responce Rhodium. Also aromatic nitro groups are highly carcinogenic.
 
Slappy
Moderator   posted 08-16-99 10:38 PM          
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Not to mention explosive. Three aromatic nitro groups makes for a pretty good explosive.
 
dr aroma
unregistered   posted 09-01-99 08:43 AM           
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Lying again, Rhodium.
Not to mention psychedelic AND explosive.


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 09-01-99 02:56 PM          
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Dr Aroma: Could you elaborate some on that, please.
 
Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-09-99 03:12 PM           
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Rhodium,
Sorry to think you were lying, but 99% is not a requirement. I'd rather not e-labor-ate on the exlposive part of this thread anymore, but the psychedelic part is no laughing matter either. para-Nitration of aromatic hydrocarbons happens! If you let the reaction keep on refluxing it will go towards tri-nitration but mono-nitration of that #4 position should bee MORE than enough to make your 2,5-DMA go ZOOM, ZOOM, ZOOM...


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-09-99 04:57 PM           
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Allow me to e.LUC.id.ATE by adapting a quote from Mister Shulgin's book, _Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved, A Chemical Love Story_, page 542, 1992. The only thing that's different is an extra alpha methyl carbon on the aliphatic side chain. This makes zippo difference for the following reaction. Dream this, bitch.
"A cooled, stirred solution of 1.0 g of 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine <Shulgin used 2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine> in 20 mL glacial acetic acid was treated with 3.3 mL 70% HNO3 in small portions, with the reaction temperature kept down with periodic cooling. After the addition was completed, the stirring was continued until there was a spontaneous separation of a yellow solid. This was 2,5-dimethoxy-4-nitro-PEA nitrate <but it will be 2,5-dimethoxy-4-nitro-amphetamine nitrate "DON" if you use 2,5-DMA as the precursor>. The crude product was filtered using a Buchner funnel, washed with cold DCM and air dryed under a heat lamp spread out on a watch glass as a fluffy yellow solid. It weighed 1.04 g."

1.04 g is more than you might think, however, as DON's dosage is somewhere between 2 and 4 mg. Bright Students among us will recognize DON ("2,5-dimethoxy-4-nitro-amphetamine") as the nitro analogue of DOM and DOB, both notorious in themselves.

"I'm not a professor, but I play on on the internet."--Aromaticity


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-09-99 05:46 PM           
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Rhodium,
Just between you and me, if you nitrate phenol instead of toluene, you don't have to get the reaction as hot and 50% (instead of 99%) HNO3 will work!!!!! In fact, picric acid is like 100 times easier to make than TNT based on the electrophilic aromatic substitution kinetics.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!


CHEM GUY
Member   posted 09-09-99 07:06 PM          
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This is informative only. Don't atempt anything illegal.
Just between you and me, a trick of the trade for nitrating with dilute nitric acid id dripping concentrated sulphuric acid into the mixture. The sulphuric acid dehydrates the nitric acid and creates a free radical which easily adds to the aromatic. Added heat adds enough energy to nitrate on more positions. For example, heating toluene up to 120C with sulphuric acid dripped into the nitric acid/toluene mixture creates TNT, but if you don't heat it up you only get dinitro-toluene.
Next, I don't think you can use alcohol as a solvent due to its OH.


Strontium
Member   posted 09-10-99 10:13 AM          
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Now I can't keep quiet anymore.
The mono-nitrated amphetamine will not be able to undergo detonation. There is not enough energy in that molecule. Compare to mono-nitro benzene. You can do what the fuck you'll like with it. It won't explode, much less detonate. Dinitrobenzene will under certain circumstances undergo detonation. But it will need quite a lot of help.
This goes for all aromatic nitro compounds, you will need at least a dinitro compound if you want it to go "kaboom". If one has a two-ring such as naphtalene you'll need at least three nitrogroups before something "kaboom-ish" will occure

One will not get 2,4,6-trinitroamphetamine by refluxing 2,5-DMA with 99% nitric acid.
You would end up with strange and nasty mix of nitrated hydrocarbons.

Strontium


Strontium
Member   posted 09-10-99 02:05 PM          
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Mr.Error dropped by. God I hate him
The last part should be:
You cannot get 2,4,6-trinitroamphetamine from amphetamine, just as Rhodium said.
You might possibly, or most likely, get 4-nitroamphetamine. But that's it.
Any harsher conditions, as more concentrated acid or higher temperature, and the alkylamine side-chain wouldn't survive.

And if you check PIHKAL, DON isn't that overwhelmingly psychedelic. Actually quite speedy.


 
Alphabeta121
Member   posted 09-10-99 05:22 PM          
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whats the pharmacology on 4 Nitro amphetamine?
ie. is it active, speedy, psychedelic or what


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-11-99 02:08 PM           
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Butterflies, not bombs. That is, I am *not* trying to get people to make TNT but rather "not" DON.
DON: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-nitro-amphetamine

Not illegal either, I don't think, but _I_ could find out.


Ranter
unregistered   posted 09-11-99 02:11 PM           
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And if you check PIHKAL, it's not actually in there. That is to say, Shulgin only has a fourth hand account from some South American drug scientists and some kind of classified warning from the DEA that they are very afraid that DON will one day become a "recreational street drug to appear on the black market."  
 
Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-11-99 02:37 PM           
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Strontium,
Shulgin/me doesn't sez use 99% HNO3 on 2,5-DMA, he/she says use 20 mL GAA for every 1.0 g 2,5-DMA along with 3.3 mL 70% aqueous HNO3 with periodic external ice bath cooling.
Viola. Work it up, baby! It will already bee in the salt (nitrate salt to bee exact) form. Ergo, there's no need even for an acid base extraction. Once it has been filtered on the Buchner funnel and washed with any ice cold organic solvent to remove impurities, it will bee ready to be dried under the good 'ole heat lamp. How 'bout them dawgs!


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-11-99 02:40 PM           
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Judge Judy sez...
Ya'll niggas ain't ready!!!
Ya'll niggas ain't ready!!!
They don't want none!
They don't want none!

(thanx to Raheem the Dream of the good 'ole ATL, ya'll)


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 09-11-99 06:13 PM          
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To trinitrate amphetamine, 99% HNO3 is *REQUIRED*. With only 70% you might reach mono- or dinitration, but not trinitration.
And I'm 100% positive trinitroamphetamine is inactive as a psychedelic.

Methoxy groups makes nitration happen much easier, that's why DON is made so easy from 2,5-DMA. It's a big difference.


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-12-99 02:34 PM           
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OK, maybee to nitrate amphetamine and maybee to nitrate toluene, but not to nitrate phenol and not to nitrate 2,5-DMA. Concentrated/99% pure HN03 isn't particularly rare, anyway.
tee hee hee...

P.S. Rhodium, do you take drugs?


Rhodium
Administrator   posted 09-12-99 05:57 PM          
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Who have talked about phenol? It can be nitrated to trinitrophenol with 5% HNO3 (reference: Urbanski's Chemistry and Technology of Explosives).
Amphetamine and toluene are approximately as easy to nitrate, and they aren't going past their dinitro derivatives without 90%+ HNO3, and now we're talking H2SO4 as solvent/dehydrating agent. And, as I said, only toluene will survive that treatment.

Me doing drugs? Well, I haven't gone through ALL the ones on my homepage yet...


Aromaticity
unregistered   posted 09-12-99 07:27 PM           
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So are you going to be adding 4-nitroamphetamine and DON to it anytime soon?
 
charas
Member   posted 09-12-99 08:02 PM          
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An explosive amphetamine? You have to love the idea..........
 
FMAN
Member   posted 09-12-99 10:36 PM          
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Fortune mag says you are late in perceptial options for the red tape is gone
---Amethystium---
 
FMAN
Member   posted 09-12-99 10:38 PM          
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can we do better? Check the deligated info simple thing to sci-chem, consider the alternatives yet, like???? I prompt you! EC
 
FMAN
Member   posted 09-12-99 10:40 PM          
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"this adjunciated procedure also in addation provides three tricyclic compounds" SEArge
 
FMAN
Member   posted 09-13-99 01:08 AM          
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horseradish peroxidase as a catalyst for the reac-tion of electrogenerated hydrogen peroxide and 2,4,6-trimethylphenol
HORSESHITTY
 
Rhodium
Administrator   posted 09-13-99 08:13 AM          
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Aroma: I have no data on 4-Nitroamphetamine, and personally I don't think it's active. If somebody knows it is active and submits a synthesis for it to me, of course I will add it. I have currently no detailed method of how it would be made and purified (any nitration of amphetamine would probably yield a mixture of 2-nitro and 4-nitro-amphetamine).
A synth of DON can be found at http://www.hyperreal.com/drugs/pihkal/ 


dr aroma
unregistered   posted 09-13-99 08:55 AM           
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I drop the number that BOOM!
 
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