formula54 (Stranger)
09-02-01 11:20
No 209459
      ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Im posting here to keep alive the discussion on ergot cultivation verses pill extraction. Im sure some of us would appreciate any stories about sucesses/failures in the field of cultivating the stuff.
I am well aware of the dangers of losing extremities, but im more worried about the yield, and about viable ways to extract. Searching only digs up old threads by KrZ saying his cousins cat was thinking about trying it: so i hope this isnt too repetative a topic. possibly this thread can finally clear some things up.
a super intelligent chimp has been emailing me and wants to try an extraction but needs support from the bees.
[blue][b]
 
 
 
 
    cheesie
(Happy Chappie)
09-02-01 14:43
No 209476
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

have u got the M.V.psychedelic chemistry off Rhodiums site? this explains how to work up from ergot etc and create the drug we all strive for.....!blushHow r u gettin the ergot?like i have said before this shit grows wild and i have had it in my hand (gloves on of course) i tried to grow it but the little buggers would not grow! oh well.good luck anyway.blush

Talk to me munky.
Munky.
Talk to me!

 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Hive Addict)
09-02-01 20:15
No 209526
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

I think that it may be difficult to obtain good quantities of lysergic acid precursors by surface culturing ergot. Before the discovery of an ergot species/strain that would produce alkaloids during submerged culture; ergot was hand picked from (deliberately?) contaminated fields. Collecting ergot was an occupation for schoolchildren.

Ergot species do seem to be common in much of the world, growing on the seed heads of grasses and grains. It would be an interesting hobby to become an expert on the ergot species endemic to ones locale and to put together the equipment for the microchemical extraction and identification of the ergot alkaloids.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-03-01 03:38
No 209609
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

actually i was thinking of acquiring a mutant strain high in alkaloids from an online supplier, an seeing where it goes from there. I would give more thought to collecting, but the winter months are coming up and i wouldnt want to start for a little while longer.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-03-01 04:45
No 209623
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

in the well circulated version of the agar mass production method, the following chems are required...i wonder what the uses of these chems are in the culture.
sucrose (i understand the need for this)
chick pea meal (this one too)
calcium nitrate
monopotassium phosphate
potassium chloride
ferrous sulphate heptahydrate
zinc sulphate heptahydrate
the last two have got me really confused... isnt one of those sulfuric acid? why would a growth medium need this?
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Hive Addict)
09-03-01 04:59
No 209626
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Neither are sulfuric acid. Both are salts of a metal (iron and zinc) and sulfuric acid. "ferrous" means iron in a +2 oxidation state. I would guess that they are used in trace amounts as a nutrient (in human terms think "mineral suplement").
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Hive Addict)
09-03-01 05:06
No 209629
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

What species of ergot is it?

What is the growth habit of ergot on agar? Do you get a mat of mycelium? I have a book - The Road to Eleusis by Wasson, Ruck and Hofmann that has a few photos of ergot. One of the photos is of fruiting bodies of Claviceps purpurea, they look like tiny mushrooms, I can't tell what the substrate is but it looks like dirt.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-03-01 05:58
No 209641
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

im not so sure about the agar, probably wouldnt work.
i just have a little mush cult experience and would like to learn about ergot culturing, i know someone here has tried it and is quiet about it. pm please, cause my friends pet baboon is going to try it anyway, please pm me.
about the sulfiric acid, i looked at them in chem finder and it said a common name for both was sulfuric acid, which i thought was a little strange too...damn i wish my chem class would speed up so i could see through all this stuff...

well really im just wondering if the ferrous sulphate hep. and the other one are really necessary for the ergot to grow.

as far as the pics in eleusis, i wonder about the concentration of ergotamine in the fruiting bodies verses the black stuff on the stalks.
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
09-03-01 17:27
No 209752
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

I once grow ergot (Claviceps purpurea from lyme grass) on malt agar (homemade) it grows werye fast. And as fair as i remeber there is a big article from 1956 abouth growing ergot (i'll look it op). They grows 3-4 generations of ergot and select the most pink one (just by colour) each time. They end up with 2g isolatet LSA from one liter wather
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-04-01 02:01
No 209851
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

much appreciated, hest, i figured someone here could help me out.
 
 
 
 
    cheesie
(Happy Chappie)
09-04-01 13:31
No 209966
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

could you PM me the details on that malt agar pls.blushcould you also post me that article.

Talk to me munky.
Munky.
Talk to me!

 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Stranger)
09-04-01 17:59
No 210036
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

The species used mostly used for production of lysergic acid amide seems to be Claviceps paspali, whereas Claviceps purpurea is used for production of ergotamine.

I read an article on selection of strains for high alkaloid production in submerged culture. I think they succeeded in finding high-yielding strains (3 grams per liter), but these reverted to lower-yielding strains after a few "generations" or something like that.
 
 
 
 
    Ghost_Of_BT
(Hive Bee)
09-05-01 22:56
No 210447
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

How much ergotamine can one expect to extract from, say, 30g of ergot sclerotia?

please share chemical sources with me via p.m.
 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Stranger)
09-07-01 16:23
No 211084
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Interesting facts from an article from 1975:

"The current annual production of ergot alkaloids is estimated at 4000 kg of peptide alkaloids and in excess of 12000 kg of lysergic acid. Lysergic acid presently sells at between $3000 and $4000 per kg."

I wonder how you get a license to manufacture "pharmaceutical intermediates" like lysergic acid.

"How do you account for those missing 100 grams of ergotamine?"

"Unfortunately, I dropped a beakerfull into a sink with running water."
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
09-10-01 16:53
No 211898
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

It was just a 'plain' malt agar, made form malt sirup, malt and agar, i do not have the recipie annyemore.
The name of the athour is F.Arcamone, I think it is from 1962/1963 but i'm not sure, ill try to look it up to night.
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
09-11-01 18:25
No 212106
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

F.Acramone ..... Nature 187, 238 (1960)
F.Acramone ..... Proc. Roy. Soc. Ser.B 155 26 (1961) (the best one)
H.Kolbe .... Helvetica Chimica Acta 47 1052 (1964)

Is it time for this room to start a lyserg.acid. project ???
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-18-01 04:12
No 214558
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

hest, such an undertaking would be illegal, so we cant do that.
however my imaginary cat thinks it is about time for this. she also thinks it would be good help for other imaginary cats to share experiences with lsd manufacture, as i am reasonably sure that somebee here has tried to make this damn chem, and has joined the ranks of hippie cooks who stay quiet so us youngins wont fry ourselves.
hest thanks for the sources
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
09-18-01 14:03
No 214738
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

It is not illegal in my part of the world:-).
I will start growing some claviseps, and see if the collour seperation is posible. Hope somone will join.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-18-01 21:11
No 214854
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

whatever country this is, im going to backpack my way there if I have to.
 
 
 
 
    Agent_Smith
(Hive Bee)
09-21-01 00:54
No 215715
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

I'm not into tryptamine dreams, but I had a friend long ago who grew ergoit on homebrew agar.  If I remember correcvtly, the best results came not from surface cultures, but from a more or less uniform mix of his ergot biomaterial with the agar.  The ergot deposited in the lower levels of the agar did not grow, however the upper 1/4 seemed to grow fine.  The surface of the agar would become bubbly and such as the ergot (which looked to me like a mat with little fingers or nubs sticking out) pushed it's way out from underneath.  Don't ask me for details on extraction, this really was a friend :)

blah blah blah something clever blah blah blah
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-21-01 20:17
No 215992
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

word, thanks agent. any info is good.
btw, what is that country hest?
 
 
 
 
    spric
(Hive Addict)
09-26-01 06:34
No 217264
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

A 5 acre size petri dish otta' work for a enough to dose your hometown.  You could always just pH your media before use with KOH.  Also, methinks those sulfates don't hurt.

4:20
 
 
 
 
    Bozakium
(Hive Bee)
09-27-01 00:34
No 217481
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

  For a good starter's guide on ergot farming(and subsequent isolation, synth & workup), try "Practical LSD Manufacture" by Uncle Fester, available from Loompanics Unlimited, Port Townsend Washington.  Its a great springboard, and includes many useful references. I havent heard of any suceccful cultures in a large scale in the lab, it seems one must grow a crop of rye and infest it with Claviceps Purpuria intentionally and thoroughly. Happy not heard of anyone sucessfully cultivating the fungus in Farming.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Stranger)
09-27-01 17:20
No 217731
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

yeah, but were talking about ergot for those of us that arent farmers. fester is useless for us.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Newbee)
09-28-01 20:38
No 218189
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

"sometimes i feel like a dont have a partner"
im going to cook this chemical if its the last thing i do.
 
 
 
 
    cilliersb
(Hive Bee)
10-01-01 13:24
No 219007
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Well, at least there's some light on the horizon.

Some dude I've never heard of went surfing the net for no more than 15mins. He found a site that actually distributes Claviceps Paspali. Hint: they are based in Germany

They suggested this agar medium for CP:

Medium 129: POTATO DEXTROSE AGAR 

 Infusion from potatoes (see below)         1000.0     ml
 Glucose                                      20.0      g
 Agar                                         15.0      g

Potato infusion:
Boil 200 g scrubbed and sliced potatoes in 1000 ml water for 1 hour. Pass through fine sieve. Avoid
new potatoes.

And that from the dudes that grow it commercially, how nice!
 
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
10-02-01 07:41
No 219335
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Did fester ever actually make LSD?

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
10-02-01 07:43
No 219339
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

It'd probably be less expensive and less time-consuming to learn a foreign language and go to eastern europe in search of pure ET. Besides from what I've read this is the only way to make real pure LSD.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Hive Bee)
10-02-01 22:36
No 219540
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

i think its funny that so many cooks make it seem like lsd synthesis is impossible. it seems very viable, especially if we figure a way to mass grow claviceps, (besides farmer festers idea of owning a wheat field.) it is the basic eqivalent of sayin you need to own a washington forest to grow shrooms.
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Hive Bee)
10-11-01 03:16
No 222953
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

ALOT of you must have real bad migraines, if you know what i mean. i cant believe that theres not more discussion on claviceps cultivation.
 
 
 
 
    IudexK2
(Hive Bee)
10-13-01 12:56
No 223992
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

SWIM has lots of antibacterial MEA... if someone can tell me if it is worth trying to grow ergot on it, and how best to approach it, SWIM would bee happy to try it.

Could the ergot possibly just bee grown large-scale on agar and extracted from there?
 
 
 
 
    cyril
(Stranger)
10-14-01 02:11
No 224200
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Got this from Psycadellic Chemisty Book:

Make up a culture medium by combining the following ingredients in about 500 milliliters of distilled water in a 2 liter, small-neck flask:

Sucrose 100 grams
Chick pea meal 50 grams
Calcium nitrate 1 gram
Monopotassium phosphate 0.25 grams
Magnesium sulphate 0.25 grams
Potassium chloride 0.125 grams
Ferrous sulphate heptahydrate 8.34 milligrams
Zinc sulphate heptahydrate 3.44 milligrams
Add water to make up one liter, adjust pH 4 with ammonia solution and citric acid. Sterile by autoclaving.

Inoculate the sterilized medium with Claviceps purpurea under sterile conditions, stopper with sterilized cotton and incubate for two weeks periodically testing and maintaining pH 4. After two weeks a surface culture will be seen on the medium. Large-scale production of the fungus can now begin.

Obtain several ordinary 1 gallon jugs. Place a two-hole stopper in the necks of the jugs. Fit a short (6 inch) glass tube in one hole, leaving 2 inches above the stopper. Fit a short rubber tube to this. Fill a small (500 milliliter) Erlenmeyer flask with a dilute solution of sodium hypochlorite, and extend a glass tube from the rubber tube so the end is immersed in the hypochlorite. Fit a long, glass tube in the other stopper hole. It must reach near the bottom of the jug and have about two inches showing above the stopper. Attach a rubber tube to the glass tube as short or as long as desired, and fit a short glass tube to the end of the rubber tube. Fill a large, glass tube (1 inch x 6 inches) with sterile cotton and fit 1-hole stoppers in the ends. Fit the small, glass tube in end of the rubber tube into 1 stopper of the large tube. Fit another small glass tube in the other stopper. A rubber tube is connected to this and attached to a small air pump obtained from a tropical fish supply store. You now have a set-up for pumping air from the pump, through the cotton filter, down the long glass tube in the jug, through the solution to the air space in the top of the jug, through the short glass tube, down to the bottom of the Erlenmeyer flask and up through the sodium hypochlorite solution into the atmosphere. With this aeration equipment you can assure a supply of clean air to the Claviceps purpurea fungus while maintaining a sterile atmosphere inside the solution.

Dismantle the aerators. Place all the glass tubes, rubber tubes, stoppers and cotton in a paper bag, seal tight with wire staples and sterilize in an autoclave.

Fill the 1-gallon jugs 2/3 to 3/4 full with the culture medium and autoclave.

While these things are being sterilized, homogenize in a blender the culture already obtained and use it to inoculate the media in the gallon jugs. The blender must be sterile. Everything must be sterile.

Assemble the aerators. Start the pumps. A slow bubbling in each jug will provide enough oxygen to the cultures. A single pump can, of course, be connected to several filters.

Let everything sit a room temperature (25 C) in a fairly dark place (never expose ergot alkaloids to bright light - they decompose) for a period of ten days.

After ten days adjust the culture to 1% ethanol using 95% ethanol under sterile conditions. Maintain growth for another two weeks.

After total of 24 days growth period the culture should be considered mature. Make the culture acidic with tartaric acid and homogenize in a blender for one hour.

Adjust to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide and extract with benzene or chloroform/iso-butanol mixture.

Extract again with alcoholic tartaric acid and evaporate in a vacuum to dryness. The dry material in the salt (i.e., the tartaric acid salt, the tartrate) of the ergot alkaloids, and is stored in this form because the free basic material is too unstable and decomposes readily in the presence of light, heat, moisture and air.

To recover the free base for extraction of the amide of synthesis to LSD, make the tartrate basic with ammonia to pH 9, extract with chloroform and evaporate in vacuo.

If no source of pure Claviceps purpurea fungus can be found, it may be necessary to make a field trip to obtain the ergot growths from rye or other cereal grasses. Rye grass is by far the best choice. The ergot will appear as a blackish growth on the tops of the rye where the seeds are and are referred to as "heads of ergot." From these heads of ergot sprout the Claviceps purpurea fungi. They have long steams with bulbous heads when seen under a strong glass or microscope. It is these that must be removed from the ergot, free from contamination, and used to inoculate the culture media. The need for absolute sterility cannot be overstressed. Consult any elementary text on bacteriology for the correct equipment and procedures. Avoid prolonged contact with ergot compounds, as they are poisonous and can be fatal.

Thats the way I'd do it,
Cyril

PS: You can buy infected grain for $250-$400/Lb, if you look hard enough.



So you need a precursor, to a precursor, just to make a precursor?
 
 
 
 
    IudexK2
(Hive Bee)
10-14-01 02:57
No 224218
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Yes, that extract is on Erowid, we have all seen it.
 
 
 
 
    cyril
(Stranger)
10-14-01 03:19
No 224229
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

In that case why not just use it, it's simple as all hell, otherwsise maybe some antibacterial TSA actually as per the method above TSB would seem more appropriate. (lol)  BTW that isn't only an extraction it's a growth media. 

When infected grain is so inexpensive to buy, and you have a method that apparently "we have all seen"  then why not just do it instead of waste time talking about other ways to do it. . .

The supplies to grow it are easily found at any biosupply house, (heck my neighborhood chemsupply store is also a biosupply store), and unless you skipped microbiology Lab for an extra Chem class the method is simple as can be.

Anyhow maybe the real lesson to be learned is to apply the knowledge that you have read before to the current situation.

Anyhow I guess I can't get too mad, probably just wasting my time trying to explain myself to an idiot.

Cyril  



So you need a precursor, to a precursor, just to make a precursor?
 
 
 
 
    IudexK2
(Hive Bee)
10-14-01 12:58
No 224368
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Coz I like growing stuff on agar.


Anyhow I guess I can't get too mad, probably just wasting my time trying to explain myself to an idiot.




Probably wink

 
 
 
 
    cyril
(Stranger)
10-15-01 19:18
No 224832
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Okay if you like to grow stuff on agar so much then I would assume you have prepared agar media before.  The above refernced growth media could easily be made into a growth media for growth on agar.  Seems pretty simple to me.  I would perhaps put something in to inhibit bacterial growth, and perhaps use a soy base rather then the chick peas, but still add the other components. I bet you'd get growth on a plate.  Sorry about assuming that it would be an easy extrapolation from one to the other. 

Cyril


So you need a precursor, to a precursor, just to make a precursor?
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Hive Bee)
10-15-01 21:49
No 224872
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

what im wondering is what each of those chemicals do in this cultivation writeup...im guessing some are nutrients, what are the rest for?
 
 
 
 
    cyril
(Newbee)
10-20-01 00:49
No 226926
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Here is the method I would use:

Ingredients:

6.5 g Potato Dextrose Agar
5.0 g Bacto Agar
500 ml distilled water
15 mg Rifampicin in 10 ml Methanol
15 mg Penicillin G in 10 ml 70% Ethanol

Mix the first 3 ingredients, autoclave for 20 min. and cool to room temperature. Add the antibiotics and pour into sterile petri dishes.

Plate out the fungi using a 10-4 dilution starting with 5 g dry weight of compost in 45 ml of the autoclaved phosphate buffer. Put this first dilution in a blender at high speed for 40 sec.

Perform serials dilutions to 10-4 and add 0.l ml of the final dilution to each plate.

Incubate the plates at 28C for 3 days.

Take counts and samples of fungal colonies at 3 days.

Sorry it took so long,
Cyril


So you need a precursor, to a precursor, just to make a precursor?
 
 
 
 
    formula54
(Hive Bee)
10-20-01 00:50
No 226927
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

yes. thank you cyril, thats what we were all waiting for.
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Stranger)
12-10-01 22:49
No 246206
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

Does anyone know about Claviceps paspali vs. claviceps pupurea for ergotamine yeilds?
also, here is a page i found for all you bees trying to find ergot in the wild.
http://www.oda.state.or.us/Plant/ppd/Ergotmanual2.pdf
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Newbee)
12-12-01 21:40
No 246864
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

ok heres some interesting stuff.

GROWTH SPORULATION, AND ALKALOID PRODUCTION OF AN ISOLATE OF CLAVICEPS PURPUREA IN CULTURE:
L.Malik and D.Ganguly (regional res lab ., Jammu, India)

Growth and sporulation of the fungus were studied on plated containing different growth media.
 Both were poor on PDA and McCreas medium. On oatmeal agar + thiamine growth was totally submerged
 and surface sporulation profuse. Kirchoff's medium + thiamine gave good growth and moderate sporulation.
 Presence of alkaloid could only be detected in in oatmeal agar + thiamine exposed to oxygen; a trace was produced in
 the absence of O. The amt. of alkaloid increased with the amount of added thiamine.



 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Newbee)
12-12-01 22:22
No 246869
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

something else:

 DEEFINED MEDIUM FOR THE PRODUCTION OF LYSERGIC ACID ALKALOIDS BY CLAVICEPS PASPALI
Mizrahi, A.; Miller, George
(Israel Inst. Biol.)
The production medium, designated PM-2S, contained D-mannitol,
50.0 succininc acid, 40.0, KH2PO4 2.0, and MgSO4.
7H2O 0.3 g/l.
 Usually, water was used and the PH was adjusted to 5.2-5.4 with NH4OH before sterilization.
Defined media were prepared in deionized water. With certain additives,
 alkaloid production was as high as 505 g/ml.
The advantage of the medium with defined inorg salts is
that the production of alkaloids is independant of variations in the compn. of water.

 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Newbee)
12-12-01 22:46
No 246873
      Re: ergot and agar  Bookmark   

this one is interesting also
LYSERGIC ACID AND ITS DERIVATIVES BY FERMENTATION.
Rutschmann, Juerg; Kobel, Hans
The yeild of lysergic acid and its derivs. is enhanced by using Claviceps Paspali NRRL 3027 mutants as the
fermenting organism. Such mutants are obtained by subjecting the microorganism to
 x-rays and or UV radiations and or ethyleneimine treatment.
Thus, an active mutant was obtained by irradiating with a Hanau lamp
the conidia (on malt agar surface) of the strain NRRL 3027 of C. paspali until .5-1% of
 the condia survived.
Cultures of the latter were suspended for 2 hrs. at 24deg. in 0.1% ethyleneimine soln.
The spores were sepd. on a membrane filter,
 washed with sterile H2O, and seeded on agar plates. The ethyleneimine
treatment was repeated 5-10 times.
When cultivated on a medium containing 100g sorbitol, 36g succinic acid, 2g KH2PO4, o.3 g MgSO4, 1 mg of FeSO4,
10 mg. ZnSO4 7-H2O (PH adjusted to 5.4 with NH4OH), the yeild was 2270 mg./1. of ergoline
compounds of which 85% were amides of lysergic and isolysergic acids.

 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
04-22-02 17:06
No 300177
      some things  Bookmark   

using highwire, found following on claviceps.
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/66/12/5419?maxtoshow=&HITS=&hits=&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=claviceps&searchid=1019487396775_6585&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=1

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/271/44/27524

please insert coin
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
04-22-02 17:45
No 300185
      more  Bookmark   

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/271/44/27524?maxtoshow=&HITS=&hits=&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=ergotamine+synthesis&searchid=1019489824502_7398&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=1

only skimmed this one, might be useful. the sources look interesting, especially the ones referring to the mutant strains of claviceps utilized to produce optimal amounts of alkaloids.

please insert coin
 
 
 
 
    mottaman420
(Hive Bee)
04-24-02 07:02
No 300673
      The cultivation ain't hard  Bookmark   

Cultivation isn't hard its the finding of the initial mycelium that proves to be difficult.
The easiest to aquire medium i have seen is the following:
20% Cane Sugar
3% Peptone
Tap Water
PH adjusted to 6.2 with aquueous ammonia

The stated yields were 1.8 grams of ergotamine from 1 liter of substrate following an 8-10 day incubation at 24C.
Does anyone know where you can order claviceps paspali spores from??? Is it legal to buy the m like it is to buy cubensis spores or do they contain the desired alkaloids??

Blue Horses + Red Donkeys = Purple Mules
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
04-26-02 03:42
No 301446
      motta  Bookmark   

J** used to sell them, i think they can be acquired online...but id probably go looking in the surrounding farm areas first.

please insert coin
 
 
 
 
    Scooby_Doo
(Hive Bee)
04-29-02 13:06
No 302955
      Claviceps  Bookmark   

A $10 bag of organic wheat sometimes has 2-3 little black grains. They are the same size as wheat just covered in a black looking fungi. Before having a little read I actually used to throw these little fuckers in the bin! They are probably something else but maybe just maybe. smile

Apparently the specific gravity of the ergot covered wheat becomes less, this helps the farmers out since after transport they rise to the top and can be easily removed so that the wheat can pass regulations on the amount of ergot allowed to be present.
 
 
 
 
    GuySmiley
(Newbee)
05-01-02 11:43
No 303732
      bite me  Bookmark   


   I was told in my other thread before it got locked that you could buy the egrot alkaloids from a pharmacutical manufacturer.....not sure if im getting that right.....you can legaly buy LSD precursors from a legitimate business? Also I asked how does one find ergot to cultivate, and dont have an answer, its certianly not in this thread. I read rhodium and looked at the last 15 pages of the tryptamine chem forum, so back of my butt about not looking enough. tongue

Cause its so fun!
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
05-01-02 20:10
No 303849
      The precursors cannot be bought legitimately  Bookmark   

The precursors cannot be bought legitimately, but they can be diverted from pharmaceutical businesses if you have the contacts.
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
05-07-02 20:39
No 305857
      o you want to find.  Bookmark   

guy smile
well, to discover the natural habitats of various claviceps species, look in a friggen encyclopedia. find out what ergot grows on, then find out if there are any fields of that stuff at a theater near you. get a little saavy...youll need plenty if you want to make our favorite chemical.

as far as buying or diverting goes...good luck. its doubtful that theres enough legit orders for yours to blend in with any sort of security...in the US anyways.

so there. we have no other options but to grow, and since everybody knows where to find samples, we are brought to the contents of this thread which begin to detail the process youll need to undertake.

please insert coin
 
 
 
 
    mellow
(Stranger)
05-20-02 00:31
No 310952
      No one grows claviceps on agar on a large scale  Bookmark   

IudexK2

Exactly how many thousands of pre-prepared agar plates have you got - How did you manage to obtain plates with claviceps media?

Seriously though: Everyone who grows this stuff grows it in liquid culture.

Agar plates are only used to produce pure cultures and for experiments (mutagenisis?). I used to like to get a sterile syringe with a small amount of saline in it and to gently scrape the surface of the agar in the vicinity of the mycelia. A small amount liquid is squirted on the plate and the shreaded mycelia drawn into the syringe. This is then used to innoculate a 250mL flask (several flasks) and these provide the starter cultures which can then be used to innoculate you main fermenters.

PS 1 - I repeat. No one grows claviceps on a large scale on agar. There's no reason to do that - so give up trying to get help - it's not done - unless you want to be the first, in which case, post your results in a few centuries time.

PS 2 - No I never did grow claviceps but the principle is the same for other fermentations.
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Addict)
05-20-02 01:16
No 310962
      Claviceps  Bookmark   

But you have to start the culture at an agar plate (and by the way It's a fast one, at least 10 times faster than psilocybe cubensis]
 
 
 
 
    carcrash
(Stranger)
11-26-02 14:15
No 383489
      Possible idea from agar  Bookmark   

I have heard of cubenses being grown in rice milk containers as sterile substrate for mycelium growth. Start with agar to get a pure culture then try a live tissue transfer to the rice milk container.

Grasping at straws on this one, but couldnt hurt to try. Atleast with the mushroom mycelium this is supposed to work.

I also wonder about doing a live culture transfer from agar to sterilized rye grain in myco bags. Pre soak the grain for 24 hours then pressure cook for an hour or more at 15 psi. I think the myco bags would be much better than jars here because you can thoroughly break up the substrate. Might need to use a bigger filter patch for air exchange.

Maybe in 10 years I will have enough knowledge to dream of lsd.

They are not cubes but they are fungis and I havent seen anything on anyone trying these ideas.

Ideal temperature and humidity parameters for maximum growth would help. With the ideal temperature parameter I would use an incubator made from 2 matching rubbermaid tubs 1 inside the other, the lower one full of water with a fish tank heater.

You cannot suceed if you don't try.  Learn from your failures.
 
 
 
 
    DrJackson
(Stranger)
12-02-02 20:04
No 385569
      It sure does take a long time...  Bookmark   

SWIM long ago ran into a friend of friend of friend's dog who gave him the gift of a six pack. In this six pack was not killian's irish red, an amber lager which swim does enjoy, but a rather large quantity of claviceps paspali. Swim loves shroom gardening, and figured it was worth making the leap into chem. It grows well on potato water and sugar, but doesn't produce alot of amides. swim recently got bored and threw about half into a submerged culture, and will see what those yeilds shape up to be at his earliest convenience.
 
 
 
 
    sean1234
(Newbee)
03-16-03 04:23
No 417470
      ergolines  Bookmark   

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/bpc1911/claviceps.html

interesting, basic stuff on ergoline extractions from plant matter.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/~benjamin-thomas/Indole_in_Boletus_in_PNG.htm

this article has interesting ideas as well:

It is possible, as Ott (2000 [1997-1998]) has suggested, that the enzymes in some strains of Claviceps fungi are capable of converting lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide to the diethylamide when fed to submerged saprophytic cultures (Arcamone et al. 1961)


 
 
 
 
    MeNH2
(Stranger)
03-17-03 03:03
No 417816
      Just a Tip  Bookmark   

Try to use a microscope and ID it to make sure u are growing the right culter, and or othere tests .Ergot lookes differnt growing on grass and rye than it dose in culter. Make sure u are not making Butox . Bush might come after u .. hehe
 
 
 
 
    tomjuan
03-19-03 06:43
      Perhaps I should start selling wheat or rye,...
(Rated as: insignificant)
 Bookmark