meme (Hive Bee)
10-31-01 08:57
No 230954
      DMT HCl  Bookmark   

From Tihkal:
"As to salts, this last recipe above, taken from the literature, is the only claim of a valid hydrochloride salt of DMT. In the original synthesis, by Manske, the following description appears. "The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle." I have found no attempts at its synthesis in the literature, and I have personally had no success at all. The picrate salt is well defined, used mostly for isolation and purification. The oxalate is used occasionally in animal studies. Early human studies involving the injection of solutions of the hydrochloride apparently made by dissolving DMT base in dilute aqueous HCl, and neutralizing this with base to achieve an end pH of appropriate 6. The fumarate is the salt specifically approved by the FDA for human studies, and this was the form used for human intravenous injection employed in the recent New Mexico studies."

OK, so the HCl is hard to form.  Most dmt extraction use muriatic acid, which, as I understand it, would draw out the dmt weak-acid salts from the plant, but not form the HCl if it is so damn impossible.  Would it then be better to use H2SO4 or like for this extraction?  Moreover, if DMT does not form the HCl under easy circumstances, how is it that DMT freebase can be active in a pharma-huasca "brew".  I can find trip reports if anyone doubts this.

Today is opposites day.  Everything I say, I mean the opposite.
10-31-01 09:45
No 230978
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

as i understand dmt-hcl salt doesn't form in the solution but the dmth+ and the cl- solvated by water

(Chef d'Equippe)
12-29-01 04:28
No 251096
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

Ayahuasca brews generally have an added MAOI extract  present such as peganum harmala, that allows the DMT to be
orally active...

(Hive Bee)
12-29-01 16:37
No 251197
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

Question restated:

Can dmt hcl be formed?  Shulgin ssay no, but does he mean, "no", or "not from synthesis"?  Is the salt from of dmt in the initail dmt extraction dmt hcl (assuming hcl is the acid used) or is it whatever weak organic acid the dmt is, in the plant?  What the hell is Shulgin talking about?  Maybe H2SO4 would be better? crazy

Solve et Coagula.
(Chief Bee)
12-29-01 19:11
No 251225
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

DMT freebase can associate with hydrogen chloride to form a salt. However, what Shulgin means is that this salt is very hard to crystallize, that's why he have never seen it.
(Distinctive Doe)
12-31-01 20:35
No 251674
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

Just because it won't crystallize doesn't mean that it won't work for A/B extractions.

Do Your Part To Win the War.
(Hive Bee)
01-03-02 14:28
No 252316
      Re: DMT HCl  Bookmark   

Thank you very much, Rhodium, and Foxy.  I am in your debt again.

Solve et Coagula.