kdog_x (Stranger)
01-16-02 04:23
No 256958
      Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I'm having trouble finding any Ammonia Sulphate fertilizer. I tried all the local stores but haven't seen anything. I realize that its the winter, but some place should still carry the sh&!. Can anyone give me a push in the right direction?
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-16-02 04:31
No 256964
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

In Southern California any of the larger hardware/home supply stores carry it in the garden section. A 20 lb bag is a couple of dollars.
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-16-02 04:31
No 256965
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Gardening area of hardware stores. Nurseries. Wal-fart even.

I'm telling everyone for the last time: In the good ol' US of A (forgive me, but I am assuming you are a US native. If I am incorrect, feel free to flame) In the USA, mono-ingredient fertilizers are no longer sold in brand name stores like walfart et al. They are always mixes of all kinds of stuff.

Finding ammonium sulfate is easy. Just look for pure ammonium nitrate, and the sulfate appears everywhere. Worked for me when I wanted nitrate for you know what once upon a time and it was nowhere to be found, only sulfate sulfate sulfate. tongue

Nowadays, phosphates are pretty popular, too.

Why do you need the sulfate?

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-16-02 04:37
No 256969
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Why do you need the sulfate?
It is a cheap source of ammonia for use in the production of anhydrous ammonia or methylamine.

In the USA, mono-ingredient fertilizers are no longer sold in brand name stores like walfart et al.
I wouldn't know about Walmart, I avoid shopping there. The garden stores that I do go to carry bags of pure ammonium sulfate.
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-16-02 04:46
No 256974
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I've tried Walfart, Mynards, H***Dep** and every other store I can possibly concieve of. Unforunately many of the larger nursery's etc. are closed until the spring. Unfortunately SWIM Doesn't want to wait that long. Guess I'll let my fingers do the walking and use the yellow pages.

One more question though, For making chloroform from pool shock + acetone. Anyone know what type of shock to use. I know that I should use Liquid, but will any liquid shock work?

-PS agent_smith... youre a god

 
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Bee)
01-16-02 04:46
No 256975
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

This time of year they will look at you funny for Am Nitrate purchases. find an agricultural/farm Feed store drive up in a truck and boots with mud on your pants.
pretty much any am fertalizer will work with NAOH to produce the gas you desire.
 VL_
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-16-02 04:49
No 256977
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I've found Ferts with Am Nitrate in it, but its mixed with a bunch of other crap and in low conc. I want to make this as quick and easy as possible.
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-16-02 05:02
No 256982
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

H***Dep**
Yep, I have seen bags of pure ammonium sulfate in these stores in SoCal as recently as last summer. Around here I would expect it to be available year round but sounds like you live in some part of the country that has nasty things like snow.
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-16-02 05:12
No 256984
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

How much worse is this going to be if I use Am Nitrate and maybe... a bigger container? Anyone try it?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-16-02 05:18
No 256986
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

It will be fine. NH4NO3 + NaOH --> NH3 + H2O + NaNO3

All of these are stable. A waste of good NH4NO3, though....

Terbium, I wont shop at walfart though either, but I know they carry such things. They seem to be the heavyweight favorite as well.

And what was said above is true, any ammonium salt will work upon basification to yield ammonia gas.

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    Elementary
(Hive Bee)
01-16-02 05:22
No 256988
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

"Worked for me when I wanted nitrate for you know what once upon a time"

Never knew you were into nitrous oxide !wink

One day I'll understand everything !
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-16-02 05:25
No 256991
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I hope to god you are kidding lol. wink

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-16-02 06:42
No 257022
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Thermal decomposition of ammonium nitrate is the commercial procedure for production of nitrous oxide.
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-16-02 13:54
No 257193
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Im aware of that, I meant that I hoped he was kidding about me using it.

In fact terbium, I had a small debate with Osmium about thermal decomposition of NH4NO3 to N2O in a thread awhile back.

                                                    PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    halfapint
(Ubiquitous Precursor Medal Winner)
01-19-02 11:46
No 258285
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Since we are talking about ammonium nitrate rather than the title compound, it does more than just give off N2O. It's a good oxidizer too, like in US 3965185 in which it is used to reoxidize nickel chloride (you know, palladium chloride, ferric chloride, osmium bromide works fine too) in a Wacker process of oxidizing an olefin to a ketone. Much easier to handle than benzoquinone, right? Also cheaper? The ammonium nitrate gives off nitrogen and goes away during the course of the reaction. Gives the same effect as if it had turned into nascent oxygen in the pot.

turning science fact into <<science fiction>>
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-19-02 23:33
No 258438
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I found some 4lb boxes derived from Ammon. Sulfate and Amm. Nitrate. $3 each. It says they're 12 percent available nitrate. Will I need to buy 2 tons. Or will this bee enough?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
01-20-02 00:39
No 258463
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

> It says they're 12 percent available nitrate. Will I need
> to buy 2 tons. Or will this bee enough?

For what? It helps a lot if people would say what their intended target is.

You have 4 pounds of a mixture containing 12% ammonium nitrate and presumably 88% ammonium sulfate. So there.
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Hive Addict)
01-20-02 06:52
No 258563
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

2 tons in the back of a moving truck should be sufficient for bringing down a large federal building.  Hope you don't plan on using the same credit card/checking account to buy the racing fuel though.wink

If Pacman had influenced us, we'd run around dark rooms eating pills and listen to repetitive music
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-20-02 10:17
No 258619
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Let me rephrase that. I would like to know how this percentage compares to sulphate of ammonia fertilizer *SWIM has never seen that. Is that stuff 100%? Also, Am. Sulfate and Nitrate were just the first two items on the ingredient list. There were seveal others. I'm assuming they were listed from greatest to least.

PS I'll leave the federal buildings to the terrorists

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    halfapint
(Ubiquitous Precursor Medal Winner)
01-20-02 15:08
No 258659
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

It's 12% total "available nitrogen". This includes the ammonia from both the sulfate and nitrate, and the nitrogen which forms the nitrate (and also any other nitrates there may bee). About any ammonia-containing fertilizer will serve to generate ammonia, with alkali. Ammonium sulfate would produce more nitrogen for its bulk, more cleanly than a mixed fertilizer.

turning science fact into <<science fiction>>
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-21-02 10:56
No 258935
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Uh... I think I missed something, how is this a waste of good NH4NO3. Will my Zinnias die?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-21-02 15:05
No 258980
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Haha, don't worry about that comment. It's just a "personal" opinion. wink

                                                      PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    Elementary
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 15:29
No 258981
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Talk about waste(d)

In 1921 a 4,500 metric ton stockpile of ammonium nitrate and ammonium sulfate exploded at a chemical plant in Oppau, Germany. The blast and subsequent fire killed 600, injured 1500, and left 7000 people homeless.


One day I'll understand everything !
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-21-02 15:37
No 258984
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

The nitrate was the one to blame, not the sulfate. If you use sulfate, you should have no worries whatsoever of explosion.

                                                       PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    Elementary
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 15:42
No 258985
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I think it was the double salt (NH4)2SO4.2NH4NO3 (Leuna Saltpeter), anyway getting back to ammonium sulphate .............

One day I'll understand everything !
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-21-02 19:00
No 259035
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

In 1921 a 4,500 metric ton stockpile of ammonium nitrate and ammonium sulfate exploded at a chemical plant in Oppau, Germany.
The way I remember the story is that this was a huge pile sitting outside, byproduct from some other process.  Over time, exposure to the elements had caused the pile to fuse into a rock hard mass. So, when they decided to clean up the pile, to break up the fused mass they decided to blast. They drilled holes into the hardened mass, inserted dynamite and set off the dynamite hoping to break the pile into smaller pieces.

When was the Port Arthur, Texas explosion? This involved a freight ship filled with amonium nitrate that caught fire. Even though it was taken a good distance from port before the explosion it still caused great damage to the town.
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-25-02 22:06
No 260821
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Just got back from H*** D****. I checked the fertilizer aisle for bags of pure ammonium sulfate. I found the tags showing where the ammonium sulfate had been but there were no bags. Just as I was looking around for an employee to ask when they would restock the ammonium sulfate, here came someone pulling a pallet of about 25 20lb bags and before I left the store I saw him bringing in another pallet of 20lb bags. So, H*** D**** in Southern Calif. has bags of pure ammonium sulfate again, at a price of less than $3.00/20lb bag.
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-26-02 06:32
No 260996
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I had recently told a friend of SWIPP's about this topic of acquisition, and that SWIPP could not find it here in TX, and he said, more or less, "Well then you need to open your eyes, man!" We went to the store which you speak of, and lo and behold, small 5lb bags and large 25lb bags, for $1.29 and $4.19 respectively. Not bad for 25lbs....

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-27-02 03:50
No 261340
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Looks like I just live in the wrong state. I even got an employee to unlock the door to the outside garden section. If they have it, it mustn't be until spring. Or maybe my H*** De*** just suckscrazy

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    Elementary
(Hive Bee)
01-27-02 04:16
No 261358
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

I just can't believe what your saying !

As a last resort make it by adding dilute sulphuric acid to ammonia solution (household ammonia, available at large chemists and hardware stores) and evapourate.

One day I'll understand everything !
 
 
 
 
    toltec
(Hive Bee)
01-28-02 03:43
No 261641
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

When youn guy's say pure amonia sulphate do you mean 100%
or do you mean 28%or what please clarifiecool
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-28-02 03:56
No 261643
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Ammonium sulfate is a solid, so pure would imply 100% ammonium sulfate.

For aqueous solutions of ammonia, "pure" often refers to containing no adulterants, and "concentration" refers to the quantity included within the water.

                                                   PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    kdog_x
(Stranger)
01-29-02 03:39
No 262056
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Maybe March will bring new tidings. No hurry, Swim can't make chloroform without a still anyway. wink

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
01-29-02 04:01
No 262061
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

What?

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    toltec
(Hive Bee)
01-29-02 06:31
No 262129
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

amonia sulphate is a solid ,but so is all the other crap inthe fertilizer.listenif I have a 20lb sack and 8lb is
filler(bullshit) and the rest is amonia sulphate then you
don't have 100% amonia sulphate.Let's just get real here
and stop all the bullshit.Outside of annie(nh3)there hasn't been any 100% amonia anything in great amount anywhere at any store for sell to individuals.
Jeeze I feel like "FROST" is back.

What ever became of Frost anyway?coolcool
 
 
 
 
    Buster_Hymen
(Hive Addict)
01-29-02 22:48
No 262406
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

He passed away (was decapitated, actually) in a tragic explosion involving a bug sprayer, aqueous ammonia, lithium batteries, and several opened cans of starting fluid.


  \\|//
         -- Free Spitball and give him a wedgie!
    \O/
      '''
 
 
 
 
    toltec
(Hive Bee)
02-07-02 05:05
No 266284
      Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  Bookmark   

Don't forget all the honey he made from edta or that
photodeveloping fluid.Ha,Ha,Halaughlaughtonguecool
 
 
 
 
    Peaktime
(Stranger)
01-27-03 20:07
No 401919
      Ammonia gas generation  Bookmark   

A few doubts.....
Will ANY ammonium salt react with NaOH to produce Ammonia gas???????
And if yes, is there an difference of using one salt instead of other, in therms of gas generation?
I bought some Ammonium Bicarbonate (NH4HCO3), can I use it to produce ammonia gas?
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
01-27-03 20:28
No 401929
      ammonium salts  Bookmark   

Yes, much any salt will do, the main difference being how much of the salt you need to use per gram of ammonia generated, as the  non-ammonia part of the different salts are more or less heavy.
 
 
 
 
    Peaktime
(Stranger)
01-28-03 01:19
No 402000
      Ammonia salt  Bookmark   

Yeah just asked to be sure....
I calculated the amount for ammonium bicarbonate, I should react 158g of NH4HCO3 to every 80g of NaOH.....
Here where I live Ammonium bicarbonate is much more OTC than Ammonium Sulphate......(So Paulo, Brazil)
The bad thing is the Sassy oil, because you need a Medical license to buy...