baalchemist (Chef d'Equippe)
01-21-02 13:49
No 258972
      Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Baal came across a man on the roadside the other day, selling all different kinds of containers. After careful consideration, Baal left with a food-grade,55gal drum, w/a locking lid device, & lined with a chem-resistant coating for a mere $7.00. First a hole was drilled in the lid and a 3/8"brass fitting was installed and hooked up to an air compressor and filled with air to 200psi to test pressure capability. Brass fitting was then topped off with a 175psi poppet valve. Into the drum went 20L>MeOH,400g>Al foil chunks & 200g>thin Al flashing cut into 1/4" strips, 600mg>HgCl2, this was stirred with a cordless electric drill fitted with a home-made stirrod & paddle for about 5 mins. Then another solution consisting of 500g>Ketone, 400g>Nitromethane, & 500ml>MeOH was prepared and ~150mls of this was added to the drum and stirred for ~2 mins. Now the MeOH was becoming more gray & amalgamation was present, this was periodically stirred for a period of just a few short mins. The bubbling pace was picking up, and now at about the 15 min. point, the rest of the Ketone solution was quickly dumped in. The lid was then quickly affixed to the drum, it was then sealed with the locking device and a nylon safety strap was wrapped around the drum lid for extra safety(in hindsight it wasnt necessary). A garden hose provided cold water flow across the top & the drum was then periodically "rocked" over the next hour to help with the mixing. During this time, the 'poppet valve' only went off twice for a second or so. The drum was then set atop 2
hotplates set on medium and it was periodically 'rocked' over another period of 2.5 hours, at which time the hotplates were removed and the drum was allowed to cool for a bit before the lid was removed. A 15L>35%NaOH solution was quickly prepared using bags of ice in order to keep the heat down, and 15L>Toluene was added to the drum and then stirred overhead on high. The NaOH was then added slowly and this whole shebang was stirred for 1 hr. at which time it was allowed to settle into its 2-layers. The top Toluene layer was siphoned off into a small plastic garbage can containg 7L of brine, this was stirred for 10 mins then allowed to separate. The top Toluene layer was siphoned off into another garbage can containing 7L>H2O, stirred for 10 mins, Toluene layer was siphoned off into garbage can once again. Then ~1/2kg>Dried MgSo4 was added to the Toluene and stirred for 5 mins, this was then allowed 20 mins to settle. Baal then went to prepare his 'Battle gasser', which is a modified 2-gal. plant sprayer. Then to the dismay of Baal, he discovers that he needs more Hcl than whats on hand. H-store opens in 4 hours, time for a quick nap.
More to come soon...... 

GODISNOWHERE
 
 
 
 
    baalchemist
(Chef d'Equippe)
01-21-02 20:46
No 259070
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Well Baal, now being equipped with a fresh gal>Hcl, pours it into the gassing apparatus. The dried Toluene layer was siphoned off into a 5gal bucket, and a wad of Al foil(~50g's) was tossed into the Hcl in the gassing rig and the lid was quickly replaced. Within ~1 min gas was beginning to evolve, and the Toluene was briskly stirred with the glass gassing wand. The gasser was charged with a couple more wads of Al foil to finish off. The bucket contents were now resembling a VERY large coconut slurpee, and Baal promptly stuck the probe from his immersion cooler into the slush. Within 1 hour, the precipitation stopped, this was then filtered on a giant Buchner. The Toluene was gassed once again, chilled, filtered and added to the first gassings' yields. After drying, the grand total in yield
came out to 467g>MDMA Hcl. Baal thinks that an epic 1000++g'er could happen with this setup, we'll soon find out I'm sure. cool

GODISNOWHERE
 
 
 
 
    RoundBottom
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 21:20
No 259084
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

wow.  is there an icon for bowing down?  congrats.

have you had a chance to look at the inside of the drum to see if there is any damage to the lining?  any idea what the drum used for before this?

i learned a thing or two from charlie dontcha know.
 
 
 
 
    yellowjacket
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 21:22
No 259086
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

holy shit...

marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb!
 
 
 
 
    noj
(Hive Addict)
01-21-02 21:25
No 259089
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Very well done! I really liked that!

crucify the ego before it's far too late
and you will come to find that we are all one mind
 
 
 
 
    Dr_Sister
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 22:34
No 259112
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

You da man, Baal! Fuck wow!

couple questions, curious why you choose to run the rxn under pressure, could it not have been run with lid off? or were you trying to increase the MeOH BP? Do you think it boosted yeilds?

How viscous was the rxn before the toluene addition, i'm wondering if the solvent volume could be reduced?

When the releif valve went was there a spray of reactants?

featly done amigocool

7.10.01
 
 
 
 
    yellowjacket
(Hive Bee)
01-21-02 23:54
No 259149
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

I don't mean to sound like grandma, but be careful! That is a lot of drugs. My friend was recently sent up (3 yrs) for cultivation. He had been growing a pound here and a pound there for years no problem, and then he scaled up pretty drastically, got cocky. The money got bigger, more people got involved and someone dropped the dime. I have found your posts invaluable so far, so stay free!

marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb!
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Bee)
01-22-02 01:47
No 259177
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Pressure reactions are great they keep your MeAm in the solvent where it needs to be.  i bet the ammount of nitro used could be cut down in such a reaction.
VL_
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
01-22-02 17:13
No 259415
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

-----------------------------------
and a wad of Al foil(~50g's) was tossed into the Hcl in the gassing rig and the lid was quickly replaced. Within ~1 min gas was beginning to evolve, and the Toluene was briskly stirred with the glass gassing wand.
------------------------------------------
Why are you making H2 instead off HCl?? or is it just my reading and understanding there is bad ??
 
 
 
 
    Goodtimes
(Hive Addict)
01-22-02 20:29
No 259473
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Interesting read Baal........

Stay safe......

wink

One more thing... what color was your tolly before gassing???

"The gods are too fond of a joke."  (Aristotle)

 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
01-23-02 03:14
No 259654
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Next step: for real men, the biker method. tongue

Take 10 beer barrells, the alu alloy type one.
Roll your alu flashing in neat little rolls, so they fit in the fill opening.
Dump the whole shebang in ( btw, a WHOLE LOT less solvent, and a LOT more alu/ketone/nitro, a pinch more of Hgsalt, and screw the original lids back on.
Dump barrells in oil bath, 55C.
When outer hull is same temp as oilbath, take out and rig up to 5 shaker motors.
Shake the hell out of them for a few hours.
If you really wanna know a bit more, rig a pressure meter in the fill openings.
Then stop shaking (you?), and proceed as usual. LT/ cool

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Bee)
01-23-02 04:26
No 259689
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Again why the h2 instead of the hcl agreed that H is the definition of acidity but will it make crystals.  does it form the hydronium salt instead if so is it prefered.
 
 
 
 
    Sektor7G
(Stranger)
01-23-02 04:37
No 259695
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Well i think you can officaly call that large scale!
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
01-23-02 05:35
No 259725
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

../rhodium/chemistry /hclgas.argox.html

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    baalchemist
(Chef d'Equippe)
01-23-02 10:04
No 259804
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Thats uncanny you mentioned that LabTop, that was my whole inspiration in a nutshell. The ol' biker speed cook story, with the barrels dumped into a creek for cooling, ah yes...

The Toluene was clear prior to gassing, as always. Gassing those 'colored' toluene solutions are a no-no, too dirty to risk it.

GODISNOWHERE
 
 
 
 
    zooligan
(Hive Addict)
01-23-02 16:54
No 259872
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   


Gassing those 'colored' toluene solutions are a no-no, too dirty to risk it.




Agreed.  Wash that tol w/sat bicarb (if necessary) until it cleans up, then gas.  Or A/B it again.


"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person." -- Willa Cather
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
01-23-02 17:09
No 259880
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Why cannot anyone vacuum distill their freebase? Even if the amine solution is clear, there is still dimers and other impurities left.
 
 
 
 
    zooligan
(Hive Addict)
01-23-02 20:51
No 259967
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

At that quantity, it would certainly be feasible to vac distill.  I believe the reason most bees don't is because the mechanical losses in the glassware would make a significant %'age of their yield go away.  Also, most folks are led to believe (I think) that freebase is delicate and any additional operations will decrease yield and produce additional dimers and such by degredation of the amine.

Just guessing...

z


"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person." -- Willa Cather
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
01-23-02 21:06
No 259972
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

It doesn't make sense to not distill, as the "mechanical losses" (as in you losing product weight) is mostly just the removal of impurities.
 
 
 
 
    Osmium
(Mr. Spock)
01-24-02 00:07
No 260037
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

I personally distilled freebase from an Al/Hg reaction, after cleaning it up by an A/B, at the 40g scale with standard non-microscale glassware. Losses were less than 3%. When doing this with more than 100g the losses will probably still be the same weight-wise, so you lose less than 2% in that step. But most bees consider that loss to be similar to $$$ thrown out of the window, which is sad and makes them cheap asses.

Live long and Prosper.
 
 
 
 
    Scrotium
(Stranger)
01-24-02 02:37
No 260094
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Nice, baal, but still rather volumetrically inefficient. If you would just spend time it takes to make some MeAm, you could process that much ketone in a five liter flask (1/10 the volume that you used). Swim has done a kilogram in a 10 liter jar with NaBH4 and got back almost 900 g of the HCl salt.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
01-24-02 03:17
No 260114
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Scrotium: PM me a detailed writeup of that, please, with yields and all the techniques used.
 
 
 
 
    noj
(Hive Addict)
01-24-02 05:37
No 260183
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Fuck that, make it a public writeup smile

crucify the ego before it's far too late
and you will come to find that we are all one mind
 
 
 
 
    MrGlasscock2U
(Stranger)
01-24-02 06:07
No 260192
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Yes, am presently fermenting a small tank farm of sorghum molasses to eph, after which this will be reduced in 316 stainless tanks with phosphoric acid, acetic acid, red phosphorus and I2. Planning on piping based post reaction NP direct to a large galvanized stock tank full of dry ice.

Aw, just kidding.blush
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Bee)
01-25-02 00:27
No 260509
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Who gives a fuck about volumetric effiency, you missed the part anout the rxn vessel costing him $7.  get another one of these and fill it with ammonium nitrate with a bucket full saturated NaOh next to it. also a gas mask.  then when the feds come knoking on the door start a fast drip of the base into the nitrate and dip out the back door.  house is filled with NH3 and aint no one coming in. Rxn vessel+ very dangerous security for probably $20 dont try that at home.
VL_
 
 
 
 
    sYnThOmAtIc
(Hive Bee)
01-25-02 08:53
No 260668
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Oh a friend of mine had a lil accident with a hcl generator. He was gassing a 500g batch and wasn't paying attention to the generator as it slid off the table releasing a shitload of fumes and making a mess which he had no choice but to clean up with a mop and bucket? He said he was only exposed to the gas for about twenty minutes but thinks he may have permanatly damaged his lungs. Well anybody think he may need to have the doc examine his lungs? I told him he should but may not be much he can do if he has.
dumb-asses there everywhere,
Annnnyyynway

I keep seeing everyone talking about sodium borohydride and sodium cyanoboro but where da fuck are yal gettin enough to make kilos of shish from? I've seen 10grm vials for ten bucks at certain non chemical supplier stores but where you peeps gettin 100's of gms from? But of course don't give sources of mehtods away to the feds monitoring here but I mean in general chem supply, home brewed nabh4, out the country chem supply just a general answer would be nice.
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
01-25-02 15:09
No 260752
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Now that's just the funny part of cooking, it separates the men from the boys.
You can post as many procedures as you can, the culprit will allways be the acquisition of chems, which is different per person and per locale.
So you can't give safe instructions for that. You have to use cunning and witt.
Do not expect a quick course for that here, you learn that on the streets of Reality-city. LT/

Btw, Vibrator, they usually also cover the backdoor, smartass.
Just stay away from them, and stop posting aggressive "methods" to outsmart them. It will help nobody.

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
01-26-02 04:37
No 260963
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

I keep seeing everyone talking about sodium borohydride and sodium cyanoboro but where da fuck are yal gettin enough to make kilos of shish from? I've seen 10grm vials for ten bucks at certain non chemical supplier stores but where you peeps gettin 100's of gms from?
Catalytic hydrogenation is a very good alternative to sodium borohydride. The catalytic hydrogenation of MDP2P/methylamine to MDMA can be done rapidly at room temperature and atmospheric pressure to give a nearly 100% yield. The setup of the hydrogenation rig is a little more complex than the setup for borohydride reduction but hydrogen is much more OTC than borohydride.
 
 
 
 
    noj
(Hive Addict)
01-26-02 06:09
No 260987
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

"The process for making sodium borohydiride involves reacting boric acid with methanol to produce tri-methyl borate which is then reacted with sodium hydride at elevated temperatures. This yields sodium borohydride and sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) together with methyl products which can be re-used in the process as methanol, plus some impurities and oils which are removed in a purification process.

Although considerable care and technical skill are required for the potentially explosive methyl borate-sodium hydride reaction, the overall process is straightforward and non-hazardous compared with the distillation of boron hydride fuels. Similarly this borohydride when made is both air- and moisture-stable, and is non-sensitive to shock - user-friendliness personified compared to some of the other boranes. It is mostly produced as Borol Solution, a 12 percent solution, with caustic soda and water, but is also made in solid forms - caplets, granules, and powder.

In paper bleaching, borohydride acts as a reducing agent to generate hydrosulphite within the mechanical pulping process. Hydrosulphite decolorizes the wood's lignin, most of which is retained in mechanical pulping (as opposed to chemical pulping in which most of the lignin is removed). Lignin is largely responsible for the brownish color of unbleached pulp. Borol Solution yields twice its own weight in hydrosulphite, and this modifies the color components of the lignin.

Borol Solution is used for most of the North American and European newsprint production and for a large range of other papers. Compared with most alternative bleaching agents, sodium borohydride leads to paper with higher finished strength characteristics and better brightness levels. It gives paper with excellent printing and ink-absorbing qualities, high bulk, high opacity, and high yield - at lower cost than other methods of bleaching. A more expensive process which employs hydrogen peroxide as the main bleaching agent can, in fact, yield up to ten percent extra brightness, and this is used for very high quality, 'whiter than white' papers."

taken from Borax's webiste



Real men cook naked.
 
 
 
 
    baalchemist
(Chef d'Equippe)
01-26-02 09:07
No 261035
      Re: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  Bookmark   

Baal's first run in the drum wasnt for 'volumetric' efficiency, it was to test the lining.Baal bets that easily 1-2000g runs theoretically could be done in this manner, regardless it was a fun experiment. Those new frontiers are just the greatest chem-nerd fun you can get smile

GODISNOWHERE
 
 
 
 
    hellman
(Stranger)
07-28-02 06:12
No 337952
      yeah baby!  Bookmark   

Love ya' work!,

Sweet,

hellman

IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity
 
 
 
 
    placebo
(irritable and cranky)
07-28-02 09:01
No 337992
      Why?  Bookmark   


get another one of these and fill it with ammonium nitrate with a bucket full saturated NaOh next to it. also a gas mask.  then when the feds come knoking on the door start a fast drip of the base into the nitrate and dip out the back door.  house is filled with NH3 and aint no one coming in.



So they just collect the evidence later and you get a few more charges added on... Moron!

Baal, why the Hyrdogen production, yeah maybe it works, I have never tried it, never would, why would you? It's not like Al foil and Hcl is so OTC and easy and NaCl and Sulfuric is so hard to get. Why? You seem like a smart boy, why the bullshit Hcl gas?

 
 
 
 
    baalchemist
08-02-02 18:21
      Why in the fuck do I need to explain anything to ...
(Rated as: redundant)
 Bookmark   
 
 
 
    Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
08-04-02 21:33
No 341273
      clear something up  Bookmark   

so the fuck dont bother all the time on Al - HCL

Here is how the reaction goes:

6(muriatic acid)  + 2(foil)  =  1X H
6 HCL *nH2O       + 2 Al     =  2 AlCl3* 6H2O + 3H2 + HCL

The HCL evolution is not based on the evolution of heat, also that the AlCl3 bind's H2O onto it and builds a hexahydrate, so the HCL hass less water to dissolve in, i think at around 33% it gets fuming and if zou start with 31-2% muriatic the less water in it  (the water is bound to alcl3) will cause a higher concentration and boom the stuff beginns to fume HCL. The heat will cause an exceleration to thefumin i think.

if not correct correct me but i think that was correct explained.

Fun: try to dissolve anhydrous AlCL3 in muriatic acid ... i would think it will fume.

Chemistry are not only the things that stink. :)
 
 
 
 
    hellman
(Newbee)
08-05-02 09:02
No 341548
      Grumpy grumpy Baal, tsi, tsi,.  Bookmark   

Grumpy grumpy Baal, tsi, tsi,.
Mark his post as redundant please Rhodium,
He is beginning to annoy me, AND i didn't think we had a place for that kind of attitude,.

And Baal, shouldn't you be in the meth forum post with that sort of response? hmmmmmmmmm???????

Now wise'n up Baal, Or I'll be comin to get ya!!!!
laugh

IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity
 
 
 
 
    ClearLight
(Hive Bee)
08-05-02 11:09
No 341569
      Hellman??? mayonnaise???  Bookmark   


 Newbee huh... where are all these lame idiots appearing from??? You would think he'd look up Baal's posts to see who he's talkin to...  No respect at all...

  Probably another AOL'er


Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
 
 
 
 
    RoundBottom
08-06-02 03:56
      signal noise
(Rated as: insignificant)
 Bookmark   
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
08-06-02 12:49
No 342055
      Let's get back on topic, or the thread must be ...  Bookmark   

Let's get back on topic, or the thread must be closed.
 
 
 
 
    placebo
(irritable and cranky)
08-07-02 05:46
No 342351
      Hey, just asking, no need for the arrogance, I've ...  Bookmark   

Hey, just asking, no need for the arrogance, I've been around here quite a while and hellman even longer.
 
 
 
 
    hellman
(Newbee)
08-07-02 07:14
No 342376
      Tis' true, clearlight, I don't think you want to ...  Bookmark   

Tis' true, clearlight, I don't think you want to get on the wrong side of me, or anybody,Get back in your box!!!!
-no only joking,
I am so far from a newbee that it would bring tears to ya eyes, I just didn't like baal's comment to my friend Placebo,.
And i don't want to perpetuate useless nonsense, either,
LET's continue with the chemistry.

hellman
laugh

IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity
 
 
 
 
    Wargasm
(Hive Bee)
08-16-02 02:48
No 345829
      Oh kapten, my captain  Bookmark   

It seems like there are several creative uses for beer brewing items.
Nice vessels indeed.  You should post this in the aquisition forum for future use in TFSE

Worker bees can leave
   Even drones can fly away
      The queen is their slave
 
 
 
 
    wacko_reaco
(Hive Bee)
08-22-02 03:27
No 347533
      come on  Bookmark   

i think encouraging inexperienced, industrial chemistry naive bees to embark on what is effectively a bomb making course is crazy, hopefully no-one is taking this shit seriously as you will die or be injured then arrested (which is worse). It appears that in fantasia cordless drill batteries last two hours (who stood there for two hours holding the trigger), that room temperature, air tight seals mean high temperature solvent proof seals (call that a testing regime) and first time fanastic successes are the norm. Speculation is great but should be stated as such.
I don't want to be an ass-hole, but the nitro is not really considered a 'safe' chemical and putting it under temperature and pressure is not exactly 'safe' either.
i have seen Bob Geldof try and perform a 500g ketone/nitro run in a 100L vessel with a 6inch Internally coiled QVF condensor running coolant at -5C, with the nitro added slowly (over 1.5hrs) and it almost ran out of control, what is speculated here is that X100, ie a bomb, a runaway reaction.
Just a note, don't try this, it is not worth it unless you know what you are doing (chemical engineer or industrial chemist with plant experience) and all your systems have been properly validated, tested and a safety process is in place.
But I probably mistook this whole thread as serious whereas it never was, so laugh at me if that is the case. but be safe.

wacka wacka wacka
 
 
 
 
    hCiLdOdUeDn
(Hive Bee)
08-22-02 04:38
No 347556
      Oh cmon... NO ONE at the hive has done anything ...  Bookmark   

Oh cmon... NO ONE at the hive has done anything illegal...just remember that...its all stories. (wink, wink**) but maybe not? or maybe so?

hcildoduedn
 
 
 
 
    placebo
(irritable and cranky)
08-22-02 19:27
No 347726
      I agree with wacko, far be it for little ole me ...  Bookmark   

I agree with wacko, far be it for little ole me to comment in the same thread as the almighty Baal, but this whole discussion is ludicrous. The MM nitro amination, is a fantastic synth and it has revolutionised the way MDMA is being produced around the world on personal levels. It is awesome and a credit to MM, but it has it's place.

But let's get real here, in any quantities remotely considered large scale, (for arguements sake, let's say >200gm) it would be ridiculous to consider reducing your ketone in this way. For various reasons.

1. If you posess the necessary skills, knowledge, equipment and access to reagents to have gotten this far and have a substantial amount of ketone. Then you already have about 10x the requirements necessary for making copious amounts of MeAm. Making MeAm is about as difficult as aquiring Nitromethane.

2. The classic Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?) more volumetrically efficient then the MM Nitro, so that instead of concerning yourself with 44 gallon drums and whether such and such a container has the right lining, or if you have the necessary condensing capacity to contain this potential bomb. You could be doing kg batches in a 5L RBF.

3. The safety issue. and probably many others I can't think of right now.

4. If you like fucking around and making things more difficult then they have to be. Hell, go ahead, when your done, if your not in jail or blown up, why don't you finish off by gassing with Hcl and foil for fucks sake!
 
 
 
 
    raffike
(Hive Addict)
08-22-02 21:52
No 347770
      Raffike has a 100 litre or little larger ...  Bookmark   

Raffike has a 100 litre or little larger stainless steel water-jacketed autoclave with 3 2 kwt heating elements.Max pressure about 5 atms or so(i bet at 10 atm it would explode).
SwiRaf's dad got it probably for free.SwiRaf cooks beer with that.It could be also used used in low pressure Wacker reactions and probably in Fester's bromosafrole method IMO.

A friend with speed is a friend indeed
 
 
 
 
    RoundBottom
(Hive Addict)
08-22-02 22:26
No 347790
      > Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?  Bookmark   

> Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?) more volumetrically efficient then the MM Nitro

not to pick nits, but AFAIK it's about 5x as efficient.

> doing kg batches in a 5L RBF

i think about 300g is about the max for a 5L RBF.  i do not know this from personal experience, just from calculations.

302.6g  ketone

378.8g MeAmCl (3.3x excess)
378.8g dH2O

673.2g dH2O
224.4g NaOH (1x ratio to MeAm)

2380mL methanol
450mg HgCl2 (150mg per 1000mL MeOH)
151.4g Al foil (3.3x excess)

this leaves about 3700mL of fluid, and not that much headroom.  this would require slow addition of the ketone, not dumping it in wholesale.

249.2g ketone would fit a lot more comfortably, with about 3000mL fluid.

my mouth tastes like burning.
 
 
 
 
    hellman
(Soothsayer)
08-23-02 05:28
No 347938
      I am in complete agreeance, when dealing with ...  Bookmark   

I am in complete agreeance, when dealing with quantities over say 100g, use methylamine HCL,.
Don't risk this, it's no worth it,.
Convert your nitro into methylamine with a tin/hcl or a fe/hcl system, if your that desperate,.
It's braindead easy,.


IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity
 
 
 
 
    sYnThOmAtIc
(Hive Addict)
08-27-02 21:04
No 349721
      Man fuck that. Use that monster for for brewing ...  Bookmark   

Man fuck that. Use that monster for for brewing some ergot. Much more worthwhile. Hell 100l so that means 75l capacity. You could have 175 grams of lysergic acid amide every seven days.

Yes, That pic really is me!
 
 
 
 
    locrian
(Hive Bee)
08-28-02 16:35
No 350094
      Reply to 'Man fuck that. Use that monster for for  Bookmark   

I debated chucking in my two cents, but said fuck it.  Here goes.  First, I don't see why Baal would lie or what benfit that might give him.  I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck what other bees (ie - people he will NEVER meet EVER more than likely) think of him.  He probably wasn't suggesting that someone try to copy this.  Think about it, if you did something on a big scale like that that was your own idea (especially inspired by biker stories), you'd probably be pretty damn proud of your work.  Its natural to human nature to want to share this feeling somehow, not for admiration, but just because it feels so damn cool to accomplish something like this, you feel compelled to tell someone.  And talking about that kind of thing outside of this board is 9 times out of 10 just stupid, so everyone should stop playa-hating, your just jealous.  Honestly, if in the unfortunate circumstance that something bad happened to Baal and the Feds took him down, they would nab his hard drive, link his screenname to him and this post could be used to prosecute technically for kingpin type shit.  So lying would have been really fucking retarded, I'll bet he just felt overwhelmed with the rush of doing this and couldn't resist posting it (as would I).  That "SWIM" shit would probably NEVER protect anyone (or refering to yourself in the third person), especially considering that the FAQ openly reveals that SWIM is used in place of first-person pronouns.  Yet, swinl still does it, too, just in case, you never know, Johnny Cochran could probably make it work.  wink

Secondly, Rhodium is soooooooooooooooo goddamn right about distilling the freebase its not even funny.  And most bees still ignore this notion.  The purer the product, the better it becomes.  Unbelievably so, in fact.  From swinl's first batch, to his last shit (distilled) before the FDA pulled the carpet out from under him temporarily, swinl could not believe the difference it made.  Pure MDMA is so worth the additional effort I can only strongly encourage bees to at least try this once.  Its stronger too, and considering that X is sold in pill form far more often than in weighed-out-baggy form, more money could technically be made if one wanted to be stingy like that (hook it up though, good karma is a good thing to have on one's side). 

In the Drug ID Bible 2002 (http://www.drugidbible.com) I saw a picture of MDMA that was clear see-through and prismic, like bomb ass glass.  It said it was quite rare - and this book is no bullshit, incredibly accurate drug info IMHO on just about every major illicit and pharm. drug out there (US-wise I suppose).  I suggest checking out to everyone.  Does anyone know how these clear crystals would be produced?  Swinl couldn't quite get there...yet.  Next chance he gets though, this will be the goal.  I was thinking virtually absolute purity combined with slow re-drying from dh2o in the fridge would be the ticket.  Do the d and l isomers play a roll in this (ie - would the d isomer have to be isolated).  Any info is appreciated on this. 

Ok few more points, then I'll shut up.  VL_ was talking tounge in cheek so chill with doggin' him.  Picturing that scenario in my head was fucking funny for some reason. 

I guess people have a point with the MeAm thing.  For swinl though, having multiple setups running simultaneously was incredibly easy and gratifying in the end.  Don't bitch about the added cost of the glass ware and hotplates, if you make that much X, you certainly have the money to pay for these items.  Sure, danger and difficulty in acquistion of these items could seem daunting to some, but no less than 55gal pressurized drums full of nitro-juiced wickedly toxic and incriminating materials to me.  I'd still be scared of mercury content personally without at least an A/B or preferably a distillation. 

It's not like Al foil and Hcl is so OTC and easy and NaCl and Sulfuric is so hard to get.  Different strokes for different folks.  The reason that came to my head is that I've read about OTC Sulphuric Acid (drain cleaner in the upper 90%'s used straight from bottle) sending some impurity through the gas and into the crystals. 

Last thing, Baalchemists "redundant" post and hellman's reply was some funny shit.  I haven't laughed out loud while by myself in a while.  Actually, its been since UnObtanium once sarcastically refered to a newbee called something like "CraZyGluSnifr" the next Shulgin after someone tried to defend the surge in newbees after the Datelin/Strike thing.  Then he said, "obviously a valuable asset to the team.  Welcome aboard!"  Laughed my ass off.  Thanks, guys.  Late.  Sorry for being long winded, i guess that's the meth speaking ...laugh
 
 
 
 
    scram
(Newbee)
08-29-02 01:04
No 350213
      Bal isn't a story teller.  Bookmark   

Bal isn't a story teller. I've talked with him for over the last 2 years before he was even bal. He has no reason to lie. He's traded a lot of valuable information with me over that time.
 
 
 
 
    hellman
(Soothsayer)
08-29-02 05:10
No 350268
      Locrian, I'm glad you enjoyed ;-)  Bookmark   

Locrian,
I'm glad you enjoyed
wink-doubly so, if you were on meth,

IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity
 
 
 
 
    RoundBottom
(Hive Addict)
08-29-02 09:08
No 350339
      best part about MeAm  Bookmark   

almost forgot, the best part about MeAm instead of nitro...

assuming 3.3x molar excess, half as much Al needed... and it doesn't need to be ground foil.

my mouth tastes like burning.
 
 
 
 
    placebo
(irritable and cranky)
08-29-02 12:25
No 350371
      Who said or insinuated he was lying?  Bookmark   

Who said or insinuated he was lying?
I merely tried to affirm my position/opinion that Al/Hg/MeAm was better for larger amounts then MM-nitro. A/B's and distilling ketone is a given, or should bee for most.