meme (Hive Bee)
03-12-02 07:45
No 281300
      DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation  Bookmark   

Yep, folks, another theoretcal DMT post  crazy .

This one with some refs wink .

OK, some hunting around during spring break led me here:

Indole + CH2O + Dimethylamine __> gramine at 80%

(H.R. Snyder, C.W. Smith, and J.H Stewert, J. Amer. Chem. Soc., 66.  200 (1944).)

Indole + CH3CH0 + isopropylamine __> n-isopropyl tryptamine with a 39-60% yield

(H.R. Snyder and D.S. Matteson, J. Amer. Chem. Soc., 79, 2217 (1957) )

So, Does anyone see a problem, beside yield, with

indole + acetaldehyde + dma __> DMT ?

Indole and dimethylamine are very easily acquired.

Acetaldehyde not too hard, either.

Alanine yields acetaldehyde (25-35%), if heated in quinoline, n,n-dimethoxy-p-toluidine, or aniline, the latter of which produces the Schiff base, and must be hydrolized.  Not the best way to go about it, though, IMVHO.

(A. Schonberg [i]et al., J. Chem. Soc., 58, 2430 (1936)

Acetaldehyde can also be produced from ethylene

ethylene + PdCl2 + H2O__> acetaldehyde + Pd + HCl

"Acetaldehyde is obtained from ethylene in excellent yield, and this is the most attractive method of industrial synthesis since the metallic palladium formed in the reaction can be regenerated in atmostpheric oxygen" (Weygand 316)

Weygand & Hilgetag. Preperative Organic Chemestry, John Wiley and Sons.  New York, 1972.

No barbed wire can cage a bee.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-12-02 10:05
No 281342
      Re: DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation  Bookmark   

Acetaldehyde does not form tryptamines with indole/dimethylamine, but instead 3-Indolyl-CH(CH3)-CH2-N(CH3)2, gramine with a methyl group sticking out from the carbon atom between the indole 3-position and the amine. In the document ../rhodium/chemistry /it-290.html at my page you can find instructions for turning gramine into -alkyltryptamines.
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
03-12-02 20:28
No 281725
      Re: DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation  Bookmark   

The simplest way to synthesize ethanal is by the oxidation of ethanol, a highly abundant, nonsuspicious laboratory solvent and human intoxicant. wink

Vivent Longtemps La Ruche!
 
 
 
 
    meme
(Hive Bee)
03-25-02 14:13
No 287771
      Mexamine to 5meo-gramine?  Bookmark   

Could one use 5-meotryptamine (Mexamine) to produce to 5meo analogue of Gramine?

No barbed wire can cage a bee.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-25-02 23:49
No 288002
      5-MeO-Gramine  Bookmark   

No, that is not easily done. Mexamine has a -CH2CH2NH2 side chain on the indole nucleus, while gramines have a -CH2-N(CH3)2 side chain. Chain shortening is not easy. Why would you want to do that? Use mexamine as a starting point for a 5-MeO-AMT derivative?
 
 
 
 
    meme
(Hive Bee)
03-26-02 07:30
No 288118
      5meo grmaine, a-M mexamine  Bookmark   

OK, new rule for meme, I'm not to post until I have writtin out my question/post in full and debugged it.
blush


Of course that won't work.  But you are correct in your presumptions of my question.

So if I started from 5meo indole, through the gramine derivitive, I could end up with 5meo amt analogues, right?

And following the routes in TiHKAL for NET, and NiPT, starting with Mexamine, I could produce the n-alkylated, 5meo analogues, right?

No barbed wire can cage a bee.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-26-02 11:04
No 288169
      5-MeO-indole to 5-MeO-gramine  Bookmark   

Yes, you can treat 5-MeO-Indole with dimethylamine/formaldehyde to get 5-MeO-Gramine (3-(dimethylaminomethyl)-5-Methoxyindole) in high yield, but as you can see on my page, the transformation of gramines to tryptamines gives very low yields.
 
 
 
 
    locrian
(Hive Bee)
04-04-02 01:38
No 292247
      Reply to '5-MeO-indole to 5-MeO-gramine'  Bookmark   

Can someone comment on the qualitative effects of 5-Meo-AMT?  I know what AMT is like, but the 5-Meo version would probably be much more potent.  Still though, why does homeboy online charge $400/g?  WTF?  What would make it worth that (considering virtually all the other shit is in the $125 range)? 

We need new drugs.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-04-02 02:48
No 292265
      price  Bookmark   

I guess the potency makes for the higher price. People like that actually charge you per dose, not per gram.
 
 
 
 
    311311311
(Hive Bee)
04-04-02 13:08
No 292432
      Relativity  Bookmark   

5meoamt=2$ per dose
AMT=over 5$ per dose
 
 
 
 
    locrian
(Hive Bee)
04-06-02 20:28
No 293497
      Reply to 'Relativity'  Bookmark   

I see ...well I have experience with neither, but have tried 5-Meo-DMT as well as nn-DMT and even though the 5-Meo-DMT is more potent as expected of a 5-Methoxy, it doesn't seem as intense, still mind blowing, but different.  Like it didn't completely shut down ALL sensory input, some but not all.  More like K.  There's nothing like taking a hugh hit of DMT and going into the depths of sensory deprivation elf land. 

We need new drugs.