Vibrating_Lights (Hive Addict)
03-25-02 08:29
No 287657
      Key to the universe A taste of 3-iodo PMMA Whoa..  Bookmark   

I got this report from a homeless man who must have been crazy.  He was sure hell fire set on te fact that he believed he had met God. He can't remember exactly when this happened but this is what he told me. If there are any questions i could probably find him and he would answer for a bottle and a warm meal.  This is what he told me." I remember one time when all of a sudden i was getting special requests for pmma. well when there is a demand there must be a supply. The responce was so good that an immediate second was in order.  The original was made via unbuffered oxone epoxidation of undistilled anise followed by an  al/hg with nitromethane of the undistilled ketone using Hg2I2 to amalgamate.  The Group of testers agreed that 175mgs was the optimal dosage for a good single pill time. Not a single bad report for Pure PMMA recieved.  nOw to the good part.  This last the ketone was made in a similar manner. again undistilled." He said."now i make my Mercury salts by keeping a blob of Hg in a bottle of 2% iodine tincture.  i know when it is ready by when the liquid goes clear.  usually at least 2 days is needed when there is an adequate ammount of Hg present to completely convert the I2.  well it seems that this time there was a very little ammount of hg in the bottle when more I2 was added. well i went to amalgamate the Al and when i poured the liquid in it was still a little yellow.  Shit well it probly won't hurt anything at worst i might get a little of the idio analog. 55gms of Al was put into a container with 750ml MeOH and the bottle of incomplete I2 tincture.  This amalgamated the al completely in about 20 mins. this was put into a modified 5gallon bucket(WIth condensor and another 1500ml of meoh was added. 70gms of undistilled ketone was combined with 40gms nitro methane and 50mlMeOH.  this was dreippd into the bucket over a period of 45mins.  It was noted through the plexiglass peephole that the yellow color(from the I2 in the mix) Dissapeared after 5ml of ketone had been added.  this proceded to the typical blue grey color. One thing to note that renoylds heavy duty was short on hand and a 50/50 mix of Rynolds regular and Heavy duty were used. The rxn was refluxing 3/4 the way up the ice watercooled condensor within 14mins of inital addition.  I guess due to the mix of foil used that the caused the solution to be completely reacted and back to room temp within 3.5hrs after the addition.  at one point vapors began escaping the condensor and a fan was placed next to the bucket.  this provided adequate cooling to keep the contents in the bucket for the rest of the rxn. Final product wasn't weighed estimated yeild to be around 30-35gms. assuming that this wa pure PMMA the small portions of "0" caps were filled loosely and this is estimated to be around 150-170mgs.
 Commentary.
-______________________________________
It's crazy how somethings are found by accident.  If any one thing can be said about this compound is"wholy fucking shit" I'm am starting now to think that PMMA is ment to be an intermediate compound such as 2-CH or DOA. Probably way less than 5% of the amine present was iodinated by the excess I2.  It was a general consensus that this product was at least 5x more potent than the previous batch.  I got to thinking why the only thing different was the excess I2. really the only possibility was that some of the product was actually the Idio analog. No further attempts were made to seperate the compounds for analysis. Now with the potency increse noted as 5x it will be assumed that Pure 5-idio PMMA will have an active dose of around 15-20mgs. PMMA freebase needs to be isolated and vacdistilled and iodinated intentionaly to properly analize the compound.
Bio Assay
Dirty Joe arrived to the party about an hour after his runner bee got there.  the runner bee had already unloaded.  and when he got there buddy came up and said what the hell you got in them things these fucking people are wasted.  this report come someone who consumed two of the caps(againsed recomendation)
Stinky pete_
I took two of them things on an empty stomach.  in about 20mins everything was feeling real floaty.  Like when your about to get hit with 200mgs of Mdma.  At this time a joint was smoked.  After that joint i felt like i had smoked 20joints and had a grin all the way across my face that would not give.  there was cool wind across the skin.   there was a strong amphetamine buzz but the mind was very cloudy.  at around 1.5 hrs i felt as if i was at the peak of this experience.  boy was i wrong. at around 2.5 hrs into it i could not walk straight any more.  it was abou this time that the party was over.  we went out to the car and this is when the first hint of eye wiggles came on.  We were both completely incapable of proscesing a thought at this point we sat inthe car for a good 30mins before we realized that we should be driving home.  COmpletely a bad idea in the state that we were in.  As we pulled out of the parking lot the jaw clenching began to set in.  By the end of the night from front to back my gums were torn beyond reconizion.  It was supposedly only the two of us that left for my house.  we stopped on the way home at a payphone to call someone who was having an after party and gave up after 10mins of not being able to properly insert quarters and dial the #.  Then we wanted to stop by loco's house to see what he was up to. while my companion sat in the car i went and knocked on the door.  no one answered and i walked around back just to findout he wasn't there.  While i was gone.  the girl in the car said she saw me walk part clear as day at least 5 times before returning to the car. By the time we got to the house the eye wiggles had become so intense that regular vision was no longer possible.  There was complete loss of almost all motor cordination. It seemed as if i was walking sideways running into walls. every since we left the party it seems as if every minute we forget what we are doing and have to start over.  Although there was only two of us there i will swear up and down that there was another guy there with us the whole time.  we actually had an argument about it the next day.  Our bodies were vibrating consistent with the frequency of the eye wiggles which got intense at somepoints but was not at all unplesent.  Then out tof the clear blue with no stimulation at all.  i got up and began to shake violently then splatt.  i said hold on and went in the bathroom.  Holy fucking shit.  I had just nutted in my pants.  the shaking was obviously an orgasm.  I couldn't fucking believe it. After that i walked in to the kitchen.  We got one of those side by side frig/freezers.  now the freezer side was floating 6" off the floor anf the frig side was also floating but sitting almost sideways.  Later walking into the kitchen i saw the same damn thing.WTF. shortly after that any connection to reailty was lost.  My vision was like an animated abstract impressionist painting.  with waves of colors constantly in motion but none of then taking any form that could resemble a real object.occasionaly  vision would return to complete normal except what i was seeing wasn't really happening.  It was the smae enviroment but with an extra person.  We were having conversations and all then i would blink and it would go back to nonsense.At no point in the entire experience was it uncomfortable.It lasted 8-12hrs all in all with hard sleep following. All in all this was the most Mindblowing intense Psycadelic experience i ever had.  It was a combination of the most intense rolling, in evry sense, and by far more intense than any visual tripping experienced to date.Definatly could not be in public for very long in this state.It is a fucking miracle that we got home alive.  Similar reports were had from everyone interviewed after experience.  there was just a slight bit of grogginess experienced the early part of the day after,  No additional side affects noted for 4 days after the experience with the exception of wanting to experience it again. 
____________________________________________________
Well lets just hope that Homeless Joe gets his shit together and properly iodinates his freebase so the true nature of the compound can be discerned.  He is sure that he found the Key to the universe. I imagine he gave up caring at that point and that is why he is homeless now.
Peace,wink
VL_
 
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
03-25-02 09:50
No 287685
      Overdose  Bookmark   

Sounds like an overdose of PMA and pot to me.

What were the effects of a SINGLE pill?
How different from the original was that?

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-25-02 10:16
No 287691
      Dosages of a single pill  Bookmark   

A single pill dosage brought instant reports of " This is the best fucking pill i have ever had in my life"!!! There is no possible way that PMA was the product. PMMA has been bioassayed at over 400mgs with no overdose symptions and in qty's exceding a gram in 12hrs. There was a darastic potency difference With the Idio analog. For a comparison of the two products compare this bio assay to the bioassays In the PMMA Experience thread started by CivicSystem in the general discourse.  What by definition is an overdose.  If what this person reported was a description overdose then hell be it.  It seems like he wrote it to be the most enjoyable experience he had in his life.  Really how many people have had a drug induced orgasm. More bioassays with isolated idio analog need to be done. the dosages of pure idio analog are probably going to be pretty low.  He could imagine taking any more.  Another report of a 175mg dose being taken and then supplemented by another 8 hrs later was said to make the experience last 16hrs with no noticable tolerance to the second dose. If homeless joe ever gets his shit together.  I'll tell him to do a controled bioassay experiment with both the parent compound and the analog. Someone should give that fucker some money so he can figure this shit out.
VL_wink
 
 
 
 
    Chromic
(Hive Addict)
03-25-02 14:23
No 287779
      Yup, can't agree more.  Bookmark   

I agree that it sounds like an OD of PMMA. I really doubt you performed EAS on the PMMA in the reduction anyways. You should be ashamed to guess a dosage of 3-iodo-PMMA (not 5-iodo-PMMA) before ever having synthesized it! It could be anywhere from 100g-250mg if it's active at all...
 
 
 
 
    civicSyStem
(Newbee)
03-25-02 14:49
No 287790
      0 caps  Bookmark   

when he was referring to the 0 caps, they are 500mg caps that can be bought at any local nutritional supplement store, the smaller portion of the cap is more like 200mg, and if the 5-iodo-pmma that was synthesized was really 5x stronger, then that dosage is incredibly high for a homeless man and stinky pete

A good spy is but the secret writer of all moments imminent.
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-25-02 15:16
No 287803
      Cap size  Bookmark   

Re
Size 0 gel caps hold something closer to 400 mg rather than your claimed 150 to 170 mg.
_Note it said that the smaller end of the cap was full. 
Reguardless of what any one thinks. This was the most mindblowing psycadelic experience any one has ever had. If it is an overdose then wholly shit why would that be a bad thing. Notice... No unpleasnt feelings noted.  Just a culmination of everything that is right and good about psycadelic drugs. Perhaps the crazy old homeless man misnamed the compound.  Either way no one can judge this experience until they have trierd it themselves.  I will ask the homeless man to collect bioassays for varying dosages.  So to reiterate What ever compound was created with anethol ketone in a reductive amination with nitromethane in the presences of Minute ammounts of I2 was the most potent fulfilling ++++ experience any of the Bioassiers had ever taken.  10 out of 10 said they would pick it over pure MDMA any day. Words cannot really describe what this is because none has ever experienced any thing like it.  The potency of the projected suspected Analog compound was based on the potency increse in relation to the ammount of I2 that could have possibly been present in the reaction mix less than. If it was not clear it was said that the freebase needs to be distilled and iodinated intentionally.  Noting the ammount of potency increse of the mixed product in relation to the ammount of analog compound that was possibly produced looks very promising. So what would this compound be called then. Any other questions.  Ps.. definatly was not an overdose of PMMA.  Well if yall are just gonna doubt.  then that is your loss.   Vl_ Don't really give a shit.
Vl_tongue
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-25-02 15:28
No 287808
      PMMA - Not for human use  Bookmark   

Considering the reports of PMMA here: ../rhodium/pharmacology/pmma.txt and Shulgin's commentary in Pihkal, which reads:

" In truth, METHYL-MA is a well studied drug, at least in animals. In both mice and rats, it is an exceptionally potent agent in creating the state of catatonia. Animal studies, prompted by the clandestine synthesis of METHYL-MA, have shown that there is indeed locomotor stimulation and some central effects, but these effects are somehow different than those of a simple amphetamine-like agent. The experimenter's conclusions, based on its structural resemblance to 4-MA and its proclivity to produce catatonia in some animal species and the ever-present possibility that there might be unsuspected neurochemical changes to be seen with its use, are that human experimentation should be discouraged. I have come to the same conclusion, but in my case this is based on a much more succinct observation: I tried it and I didn't like it."

I believe that PMMA should be considered a toxin, and should not be taken by any experimenter, and the same is true for PMA itself. If someone desires to make any simple derivative of it, such as 3-iodo or 3-bromo PMMA, I advice that person to make sure that the tasted sample does NOT contain PMMA, and still be wary of any possible side effects as the compound is carefully titrated from 0.5-1mg and up to an actice dose.
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-25-02 16:29
No 287831
      Comparing Similar compounds  Bookmark   

Are the N-methyl derivatives not, in general, way less toxic than amphetamine derivitaves.  The only human trials of PMMA In the pharmacology archives that seem negative are from prolonged usage. Chromic just said he didn't like it.  No doub't a binge of any psycoactive compound would produce similar common side affects such as noted on rhodiums page. What are any additional side affects that should be watched for.  Also Shulgin seemed to take a whole slew of unknown compounds in the years he was working.  Does anyone know about the state of his mental health now a days. Also can someone describe an over dose situation.
VL_
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
03-25-02 21:42
No 287946
      well.... od thoughts  Bookmark   

I guess overdose is subjective, you lived and appear to bee intact mentally so therefore it was not an overdose.  I guess when reading your experience it didn't sound like one i would want.  At least not with any PEA/amphetamine derivatives, to dangerous IMHO.  Maybee with a tryptamine.

"There was complete loss of almost all motor cordination.  It seemed as if i was walking sideways running into walls"

This sounds like the brink of an OD to me.

Bee careful VL, i'd hate to see you as a PMMA death report on Erowid.  I'd also hate to see murder charges on the one who cooked it.
Food for Thought

BEE CAREFUL
Foxy

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-25-02 23:31
No 287996
      Shulgin  Bookmark   

Shulgin is in excellent helath, but during his experimentation, he never took a compound he hadn't positively identified as being pure and being exactly the compound he was looking for. Also, whenever testing a new compound, he took no more than 0.5mg the first time, waited a few days, took 1mg, waited, took 2mg, waited etc. until he found the perfect level for the compound (or deemed it inactive). By slowly incrementing the dosage like that there is no great risk for overdose, as any toxic symptoms will be very mild at very low doses, and thus the testing can be aborted as soon as it is discovered that the compound has undesirable effects (such as amnesia, effects on heart rate and blood pressure etc).
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-26-02 01:07
No 288023
      Loss of motor cordination  Bookmark   

The loss of motor cordination was due completely to the lack of depth perception and the amazing frequency of the eye wiggles. also thought this was kind of funny,  A failed attempt of taking a sip of coca-cola consisted of the old man lifting the beverage it was about a foot away from his face and tried to take a drink and every time(at least 4)  he ended up pouring it out on his lap.  holding it till the can was empty.  Also to be noted is along with the eye wiggles extreme double,triple and quad vision .  This led to frequent failed attempts of lighting cigarettes.It is hard to light one when you see three or four and have to decide which one is real.  More collected bioassays revele that each participant woke up the next morning, after the first 30 mins, feeling better than they did the previous morning and had a more positave outlook on life.  These are the kind of psycadelic experiences that are usually only drempt about. Never was it imagined that a compound of any caliber could produce the affects mentioned here. Alice in wonderland comes to mind.   Note the name Vibrating_Lights and realize the dream has been met.
VL_tongue
 
 
 
 
    placebo
(irritable and cranky)
03-26-02 06:38
No 288109
      2c  Bookmark   

"Variables are the root of all evil" - placebo.

Who's to say you made PMMA the first time?
The amount of I2 that "possibly" made it into your amination sounds miniscule, if any at best. Given the benefit, how much of your 170mg dose would be the iodo compound? 0.05 - 0.005 maybe? Maybe the previous attempt was some funky amph analogue and this was something more along the lines originally intended.

Refer to 1st statement.

Bored...
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-26-02 10:55
No 288163
      Variables  Bookmark   

Agreed, but Variables are also the root of innovation and discovery.
<how much of your 170mg dose would be the iodo compound? 0.05 - 0.005 maybe>
Sounds promising once work can be done with the purified compound.
Also PMMA has been bioassayed via  synth with distilled regents and no excess I2. Only thing that didn't fit, was that it was enjoyable,warrenting repeated experiences, and did not carry the ill side affects many people mention.  see Post 282506 (civicSyStem: "PMMA experience", General Discourse)
VL_
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
03-26-02 22:27
No 288419
      Very interesting, indeed!  Bookmark   

Very interesting, indeed! I have two questions to Dirty Joe:

- did he use the very same batch of anise oil for both reactions.
- what kind of anise oil has been used? Please be as exactly as possible...
- which conditions for the epoxide-to-ketone reaction have been used.
- did they notice any 'hallucinogenic' like effects like visuals.

 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
03-28-02 06:09
No 288987
      iodine and aluminum  Bookmark   

I'm wondering how the molecular iodine could survive the contact with aluminum during amalgamation. Usually it has a very strong corroding effect on aluminum, forming aluminum iodide.
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-28-02 17:00
No 289235
      good question  Bookmark   

That is a good question.  How ever the yellow coloration present in the amalgam did not dissappear until the addition of the ketone nitro mix.
VL_
 
 
 
 
    neuromodulator
(Stranger)
03-31-02 19:19
No 290624
      good idea  Bookmark   

3-iodo-4-methoxymethamphetamine sounds like a good idea to me; however, as others have mentioned, you should be extremely careful with it.  I know HI cleaves aromatic methoxy groups.  Is that an issue when iodinating a methoxylated benzene ring in an electrophilic aromatic substitution reaction?
 
 
 
 
    Chromic
(Hive Addict)
03-31-02 22:15
No 290701
      HI isn't a concern  Bookmark   

No, HI cleaving the methoxy is not an issue...