Knoevenagel (Stranger)
04-08-02 19:50
No 294419
      electrolytic red of P2NP  Bookmark   

HI

Ive read the piece on the electrolytic red. of P2NP on the Rhodium page.
Anybody who has had any experience with this one? I do know its possible to reduce certain functional groups like, especially nitro, electrolytically. But does this actually work great for P2NP in practice?

Knoevenagel
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-09-02 05:15
No 294604
      Electroreduction  Bookmark   

Electroreduction of phenyl-2-nitropropene was one of the preferred routes to amphetamine in the 80's in some parts of Europe.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
04-09-02 15:09
No 294751
      popularity  Bookmark   

Why did it lose it's popularity?
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-09-02 15:40
No 294758
      Competition from Eastern Europe  Bookmark   

After the fall of the iron curtain in 1989, eastern european labs using industrially produced P2P, aquired by the railroad tanker, in the Leuckart reaction could sell their amphetamine for just a fraction of the price... The competition was very significant, and amphetamine prices over here have fallen to 1/4 or 1/5 of what it was ten years ago. I have no idea about what it costs in bulk, but 10/g for about 50% pure amphetamine is not uncommon at street level in my EU country.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
04-09-02 21:35
No 294877
      wow  Bookmark   

that's some cool history- although it sucks if you deal.  However, from a user's stand point, that's a hell of a deal.  considering the best deal aurelius has seen here is around $50-100/g of unknown purity. 
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-09-02 22:56
No 294908
      What country?  Bookmark   

Is that the US? And is that really dl-amphetamine at that price, and not d-meth?
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
04-09-02 23:12
No 294917
      why not meth?  Bookmark   

Why is europe seem to bee mainly amphetamine?
If they are useing P2P it seems they could get a much higher  yeild making meth, plus the product is stronger.
Why don't they?

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
04-10-02 00:18
No 294934
      Meth  Bookmark   

I think that we doo that today, but the Leuckart is easy to handel and cheap, so I guess it was a hardt 'congurent' to ged rid off. It my appinion, that today the eastern europe don't make that much amph. to the european market. More and more is made inside the contry (thank's to the net)

But back to the subject. Wee could need a little discution of the elektro redution, not for the pure amph, but for all the other amphetamines (DOB, DOM, ECT.) As you know, I still hate LAH, and catalytic hydrogenation was not the way to doo it.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-10-02 01:28
No 294952
      amph vs meth  Bookmark   

I don't know the psychology of tweekers, but most amphetamine-fiends I have met disapprove of meth as it hasn't got the body rush they are used to... Many of those people like BzP though, as it has even more of it (peripheral symphathomimetic side-effects).
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
04-10-02 03:40
No 294969
      What???  Bookmark   

"peripheral symphathomimetic side-effects"

Arrgg, puke, gag
Thats the shit that kills ya!
Fuck NO, I'll stay away from the peripheral symphathomimetic side-effects, thank you.

You are probably right..  Thats the very reason people keep saying ephedrine meth is better than pseudo meth.  They love that unreduced ephedrine, but their heart shure don't!!

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
 
 
 
 
    Mountain_Girl
(Hive Bee)
04-10-02 05:30
No 294983
      Electro Reduction  Bookmark   

Amphetamine preferred over meth ? I always thought it was the other way around. I have only ever tried amphetamine and have always assumed that meth would be better?
But anyway, this really belongs somewhere in general discourse or something.
As Hest said, back to the subject:
Electochemical reduction to obtain DOM, DOB , etc ?
Also on Rhods page is an electroreduction of the ester of ephedrine - does this really work ?
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
04-10-02 23:43
No 295387
      prices  Bookmark   

Hey Rhodium, those prices are for meth (no d/l purification- or at least you can't tell the difference with all the damn binders)  all the good cooks (knowledge in chemistry) in the area are doing time.  (one of which is a relative-frown)  and why would you ask?  this is the US that aurelius speaks of- amphet is rarely seen, the fav is meth.  in fact, aurelius has never actually sampled amphet (poor aurelius) 
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-11-02 08:49
No 295501
      price  Bookmark   

I just asked because the price seemed so high. But d-meth is 4 times stronger than dl-amphetamine, so that is one of the reasons...
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Bee)
04-11-02 10:49
No 295532
      4 times ?  Bookmark   

Is that right rhod ??, That means that the l meth fils some of the 'right' receptores out. I alwayes asumed that it was only a fac. 2. That means taht I have to resolvate my product, hmm. more work.
-------------------
[edit] Thank's terbium, that make more sense

And yes, eawen I can't stick to the subject.
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
04-11-02 10:53
No 295533
      Two factors.  Bookmark   

Rhodium was comparing d-methamphetamine to racemic amphetamine. One factor of two came from isolating the active optical isomer and the other factor of two was the difference going from amphetamine to methamphetamine.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
04-11-02 14:20
No 295644
      Prices  Bookmark   

Hey Rhodium, aurelius has seen cheaper meth- even pure d-meth for a lot lower prices, however that's not the case in the area in which aurelius spends most of aurelius' time.
 
 
 
 
    masterofpuppets
(Hive Addict)
04-12-02 19:35
No 296293
      Cheap  Bookmark   

Rhodium - isn't that incredible cheap for amphetamine???  That works out at about $9 US for 500 gm of pure amphetamine!!  Where swim comes from although purity tends to fluctuate, u could never get it that cheap.

Suicide is man's way of telling God, "You can't fire meI quit." Bill Maher, 1995
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
04-13-02 11:58
No 296491
      european amphetamine prices  Bookmark   

mop: That is cheap, and especially compared with US prices. And I hope you meant $9/500mg amphetamine and not 500 gm... smile
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
04-14-02 17:30
No 296963
      Electrochem  Bookmark   

Can some one post the link to the electrochem document on rhodiums page.  Swim can't find it for the life of her.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
04-14-02 21:13
No 297037
      link  Bookmark   

../rhodium/chemistry /amphetamine.phosphate.html
 
 
 
 
    zed
(Stranger)
04-14-02 22:32
No 297068
      E-Reduction.... to hest  Bookmark   

These reductions on ring-substituted nitropropenes do work.
But,they usually don't work very well. Yields can be downright crappy. Zed had a friend that tried all kinds.
Different rings=Different yields. Unfortunately, these were
never really "Happy Yields".

As for LiAlH4, you are wise. Zed's friend made a few buildings disappear with this fine product. Especially great when used in diethyl ether.

As for hydrogenation; Well, I think you may be missing something. Your hydrogenation experiments have produced
P2P-Oxime. Hydrolyse and extract, or steam distill
the resulting P2P from your solution. This P2P can then be
reductively aminated to form whatever N-substituted Phenyl-
isopropyl amine you choose. Now, if you must have a one step reduction from phenyl-nitropropene to amine, or you must have the unsubstituted amine...This won't work for you. If you are a practical man, you are already at the
top. You know how to use hydrogen! I'm sure you are familiar
with Heinzelman's proceedure for reductively aminating ketones. For legal reasons, I am not suggesting you use it.
But, in my opinion, variations on than method, in conjunction with your already achieved P2P synthesis, form
an unbeatable combo.. Keep in mind, the reduction of the
aforementioned nitro-propenes with Pt in acid solution, is
quite rapid. It workes well at STP. So well, that an ordinary filter flask, with magnetic stirring, could work well as a reaction vessel. Further, the catalyst might be able to reduce as many as 20 charges of solvent/nitropropene
in sucession... If you were to siphon off each portion at
the completion of reaction, and then siphon in fresh reactant....while leaving the vessel sealed. In short it is
an industrial type reaction. Small reaction vessel, great yield, lots of product. So as I stated in another post!

There is no higher or further, you have achieved your goal.
Do you think it might be time to do something else?