Elementary (Hive Addict)
05-06-02 02:33
No 305258
      German patent translation  Bookmark   

Would someone be kind enough to translate a two page Germany patent to English for me, or at least tell me if the process is described elsewhere.

Patent DE832755

Many Thanks


Don't cry for me I'm the cleaner
05-06-02 06:45
No 305303
      The essential stuff...  Bookmark   

Process for the preparation of thienylacetic acid and derivatives.

They do a Willgerodt from 2-acetothienone to get an amide or substituted amide, then they prepare 2-thienylacetic acid from it. Normally, Willgerodt yields are low because 2-acetothienon is sensitive to ammonium sulfide, sulfur, ammonia and other nitrogen bases. They get better yields by lowering reaction temperatures and they use higher concentrations of ammonia, ammonium polysulfide and sulfur to assure a better conversion. Water miscible organic solvents used are dioxan, pyridine, thf. The process is said to be suitable to prepare amides of other thienylacetic acids in good yields.

30g 2-acetothienone, 66ml conc. ammonia solution, 45g sulfur, 36g yellow solution of ammonia polysulfide and 54ml dioxan are heated in a closed vessel during 1 hour to 142C, it is kept at this temp for 3.5 hours and then heated to 152C for 15 min. Usual workup of the reaction mixture yields 23g = 68% of theory 2-thienylacetic acid amide, bp 146.5. Following the usual procedure for 'Verseifung' [=soapification? 'Verseifung' in geman means ester breakup using alkalis, like soap (seife) is made] 2-thienylacetic acid, bp 64C is prepared.

The rest is the usual patent blah blah, claims and that. Sorry i don't have that much time by now. I know my english isn't that good, so ask if you're not sure how i meant something.

Hope this helps...paul
(Chief Bee)
05-06-02 15:08
No 305395
      'Verseifung' = Saponification in english.  Bookmark   

'Verseifung' = Saponification in english.
05-06-02 18:36
No 305443
      Saponification  Bookmark   


I'm learning alot of english here!

Actually, i'm know the hive for about four years or so.. but reading and writing are two different stories.

The old Willgerodt pipe bomb topic.. a two inch pipe with caps, an electric fryer, a sandbag bunker and 100 meter extension cord laugh - i'm looking forward to seeing that work!

cheers.. paul
(Ubiquitous Precursor Medal Winner)
05-06-02 20:50
No 305481
      Morpoline, not pressure  Bookmark   

The most effective way to approach the Willgerodt would seem to bee using the effort to come up with the reagent which won't require pressure, namely morpholine, instead of working for a special-use apparatus. One or two steps should give this substance, Post 304828 (SideArm: "Morpholine making", Chemistry Discourse). On the other hand, building gadgets is fun, according to your personal preference. Yet if you want to degrade polystyrene to achieve styrene monomer, you already have one construction job cut out for you, for the pyrolysis uses a very high temperature distillation. I'd suggest building the styrene still, but making the morpholine to save the extra effort of making a (lower-yielding) bomb reaction vessel.

a half a pints a half a pound a half a world a half a round
Sidearm n. Flask neck tube.