Trenchcoat (Hive Bee)
07-09-02 16:02
No 330594
      liquid culture of psilocybe mycelium  Bookmark   

SWIT's currently growing but it really is painstaking work. Lately he's become interested in just growing the mycelium and extracting. What is the best way to do this? Is there anyway to get mycelium to grow in a liquid? Could an adaptation of the honey tek (in which mycelium grows on top of nutrient water) where air is bubbled through it or the solution is constantly agitated work?? Any ideas on a method that could be used to grow mycelium in bulk that would be ultra-suitable for a clean extraction?

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-09-02 19:43
No 330668
      go get stamets last BIG book on shrooms- it was ...  Bookmark   

go get stamets last BIG book on shrooms- it was published in 1993.  In there is an excellent recipie for growing liquid culture. Make sure to make use of a stirplate, it will speed the process ten-fold.  After 3 days, swiy can either turn off the stirring and allow a mat to grow on the top, then strain the shit and extract with dry methanol.  Swiy could also use the liquid for MASS innoculation.
  If swiy goes the mass innoculation route, he highly suggests that swim get hisself some grahm stain and test the crap for bacterial contams beefore using it for innoculations.  Swim wasted quite a bit of time and $ last summer beecause of this mistake.  Also, he suggests using the liquid in excess (just bee sure to lower the moisture content of substrate by an equal amount of the liquid)- and finding a sterile way to stir after innoculation, otherwise the liquid will settle on the bottom, and we all know what excess moisture breeds!
good luck!
flow hood is a must for this, but of course you knew that.
to speed things along, swiy might wanna look into getting hisself a peristaltic pump. if swiy is ambitious enough, he could find a way to make this a near automated processsmile but with this liquid crap, the slightest bit -o- contamination will wreak havoc on yeilds, of course...
bee anal

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
07-09-02 22:10
No 330725
      imo, liquid cultures are a waste of time for ...  Bookmark   

imo, liquid cultures are a waste of time for psilocybin extractions.
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Addict)
07-09-02 23:47
No 330761
      Psilocybin  Bookmark   

Yep, waste of time. The psilocybin is in the shrooms not the mycelia. I once ingestet 10g dry mycelia (ayk, but we have to make sakrify for the sciencelaugh).
The effect was close to g of dry shrooms
 
 
 
 
    spooky1234
(Stranger)
07-10-02 11:58
No 330919
      honey water is useless  Bookmark   

i tried drinking a half pint of honey water and got noting at all so i decided to start another jar with a liter of honey water, waited a month, drank it aLL and didn't get the slightest buzz. The jar was completly filled with mycelium too!
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Addict)
07-10-02 14:16
No 330962
      The funn stuf is in the mycelia, and only there.  Bookmark   

The funn stuf is in the mycelia, and only there. No reson to drink the wather (might bee god for you laugh)
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-10-02 16:37
No 331020
      as far as swim knows, the good stuff doesnt come ...  Bookmark   

as far as swim knows, the good stuff doesnt come in abundance until the pins are startin'.  A mat can bee coldshocked and hit with air/light just like a regular cake...
of course, once the fucker starts bruising blue- your goods are there for sure.

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
07-11-02 09:44
No 331305
      What do you guys think about adding a gram or two ...  Bookmark   

What do you guys think about adding a gram or two of tryptamine hcl to the liquid culture? How would one go about shocking the mat of mycelium? What is it's consistancy. I'm imagining it to be something like bean curd. Would one strain the mat in order to shock it? Dunk it in water in the fridge overnight?

GOD, a lot of other people who replied to my post said that this won't work. I have, however, read two articles stating the opposite. One was by a guy who, like me, had no problems growing mycelium but found getting the shrooms to form difficult. He would grow mycelium on rye and then extract using cranberry juice and vitamin c (cuz both are acidic). He would then drink the cranberry juice. Another was by some guy in the early 70's (i think) who wrote about how to supposedly prepare "5000 doses a week" by liquid culture and extraction. I don't know about the latter. Some peeps said the guy must have been full of shit. Since you seem to know a bit about this and I'm guessing you read that book you suggested, could you comment? I know there's got to be some way to make this work.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    SaintCyril
(Stranger)
07-11-02 11:54
No 331351
      Liquid and more liquid  Bookmark   

The question at hand is twofold, or at least it has become two fold:  First liquid growing methods, such as liquid innoculation are not growth methods, but more accurately methods for bulk propigation.  Meaning that you have already grown somethign and you are trying to use that myc. network to propogate more growth on some other media. 

Second question:  To extract the active ingredients out of grown mycillia the best method I have found is to grind it and then use an alcohol (absolute ethanol) works well, the the extracted product can be delt with as an extraction.  The mycil. network contains alot of psliocybin, and it can be extracted, and powdered, and then do what you want with it. This does work and has been done.

Next. . . the solhex, or the coldfinger. . .

Saint Cyril
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
07-11-02 18:04
No 331479
      have you ever ate a cultured brown rice cake?  Bookmark   

have you ever ate a cultured brown rice cake? christ, that has got to be disgusting.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-11-02 19:10
No 331500
      Truely a karma-worthy post...  Bookmark   

trench- swim beelieves he has read both 'articles' you are reffering to.
Swim has actually left straight up mycelium water (he ground a cake that was grown out with birdseed- so there where nutrients in suspension as well) alone, out in the light for a few months and actually had fruits growing in vitro! No cold shock, no air exchange, nothing!  They were the cutest, teeny tinyiest little critters ya ever layed eyes on.
AWWW...
The mycelium will form a bright white mat and will float on the surface of the water.
Get thee to the bookstore and find that 'recipie', it has all the yummy nutrients the mycelium will ever need.  Swim beelieves stamets says that gypsum (or any other pH buffer) is optional- use it!  Dont want the mycelium choking in its own waste now do we?
As far as cold shocking a liquid culture-
just throw the fucker in the fridge overnight- better yet- a full day.  Cubensis only needs somewhere around a 10 degree drop in temperature.  THEN give it some fresh air.  Swim reccomends this bee done with prudence (meaning- open the jar in the flowhood, tilt the jar towards the filter for about a minute or so).  Try and remember, visualise if you must, CO2 is heavier than air and thus sinks.  Swim doesnt reccomend this as an easy way to get some fruits, theyll just bee tiny and not worth the effort.  Swim is only saying that he usually doesnt notice much bruising until the pins show- this means that the mass isnt really pumping out the good stuff until its reproduction time- dig?
To reiterate:
stirring is absolutly WONDERFUL for getting the mycelium to grow within a liquid mycelium culture.  Think about it, with the proper amount of stirring (its related in stamets book), the fragile little strands of mycelium fragment and replicate so to speak.  Think of it in terms of growable surface area.  At each spot that is broken off, provided its not too violent, there are now two spots that are producing mycelium instead of one.
- with that beeing said, once there are hundreds of thousands of little growing sites, when the agitation stops, there is going to bee an explosion of growth!  Swiy will see little snotty whisps all throughout the liquid beefore a mat will start on the surface.  If swiy wants to bee adventurous, he can wait about 3 or 4 days after the stirring, and give one last quick stir to both airate the liquid (get some more fresh air under the surface) and to create another growth explosion.  But bee forewarned, at this point- the more ya fuck with the liquid, the higher your chances of introducing contams.
Also, with this 'recipie', dont allow the liquid to go longer than 9 days as they will start to drown in their excriment and bacterial contams are sure to follow.

Swim suggests mixing for 3 days on a hotplate/stirrer at exactly the right temp, using pillow stuffing (cotton- find it in the arts and crafts section at wally's world) in the opening of the flask (rather than fucking with a lid) in order to allow clean gas exchange throughout the process (make sure you plan ahead and figure a way to sterilize EVERYTHING that is beeing used in the process).
Then, let the shit sit for a day or two until a mat forms- then one last 30 second stir and let it sit till day 7.  Throw that bitch in the fridge overnight, expose to some blue light (or full spectrum bulb) let it sit for another day then filter through cheese cloth, dry (no heat) then grind/extract.
Swiy will have to use alot of liquid to make this worthwhile, but it is an easier, quicker (which equals safer) way to get to the good stuff.
enjoy.
ps- shallow, wide dishes/flasks will bee better suited for this than tall narrow ones...think in terms of gas exchange/surface area.
There is so much room to experiment with this technique it isnt even funny.  Swim suggests swiy finds a way to keep a NON-INCRIMINATING record of each trial and to change one variable each time he makes a go at it.  He wouldnt dick around with the nutrient content other than adding a dash of tryptamine, or a dash of some B vitamins...

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-11-02 20:07
No 331521
      karma, karma, karma...  Bookmark   

Mr. Jammer-
Swims talking liquid culture -> extraction, the post above was basically swim babbling about the what-fors of growing just the mycelium in liquid, getting it to a point where its turning out good stuff, then extracting.  Growing fruit is a completly different matter.  In liquid culture, swim strongly suggests that a little more care bee taken towards protecting the environment that the mycelium grows in.  Venture too far out with the liquid, bacteria for certain!  It is MUCH less forgiving than solid substrate, especially when you consider how the broth is such a perfect and complete mix of nutrients.
As far as solid substrates go- birdseed all the way baby! (Finch mix, with or without sunflower seeds)- once ya get the hang of sterilizing it properly, youll never look back.  Mo potent, Mo yeild, Mo flush.  GaronTee it.  Back in swims mycology days, hed get about 5-7 flushes offa them badboys, then- he'd break the cakes up, throw them in a garbage bag, give it a light (indirect) misting every three days and get hisself 2 or 3 more flushes!  Now that there is nutrient power!!!1

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
07-11-02 20:29
No 331534
      GOD, much thanks for replying being so thorough ...  Bookmark   

GOD, much thanks for replying being so thorough with your posts. You mentioned that SWIM will probably need to get a flow hood. This is a little tricky for SWIM because of money and location. Is it really nessecary? I'm good at being sterile in my work.

What do you think about this: a carboy (those big jugs used for water coolers) capped with a micron magic filter with a fish tank bubbler for agitation and gas exchange. The pump could be placed in a styro cooler with a small hepa filter in it.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
07-11-02 20:32
No 331535
      Post 279461 Post 279390 these two threads contain ...  Bookmark   

Post 279461 (Zen: "Zen and the Art of Hydroponic Mycology", Tryptamine Chemistry)
Post 279390 (Zen: "Re: Potency Increase in Psilocybe Cubensis", Tryptamine Chemistry)
these two threads contain a treasure of information.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-11-02 22:52
No 331601
      trench- at absolute minimum, pressure cooker and ...  Bookmark   

trench-
at absolute minimum, pressure cooker and some form of flow hood is a must.
A cheap-assed hood can bee made with a hepa air filter/ioniser that can bee found at wallys shroom mart.
Take the rectangular white box that has its output on the top- put it on its side and tape that fucker to a large, see-through (or opaque) bin.  Make sure the air blows in from the side, this way there will bee uniform air-presure in the box, if ya got the air blowing straight at you and out where your hand holes are, there'll bee stagnant air patches and that is bad
frown
the air should blow all the way across and hit the solid wall of the bin on the other side. 
But really, ya want something thats gonna filter .3 microns if your gonna try and bee dead sexy.  Swim beelieves those w.mart air purifiers will do the trick, but ya gotta bee super-duper anal with the sterility, liquid is very unforgiving.  If ya want/need plans for a flowhood thats just as good as the ones they use in a lab, if not better- for right about $300, let me know- and Ill post plans for it.
If your gonna get down and dirty, ya really gotta use the right tools...

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-12-02 06:57
No 331701
      Pharmacy  Bookmark   

Biojammer: go to the pharmacy to buy the salts.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-12-02 09:45
No 331747
      Oh yeah, tryptophan is NOT gone for good.  Bookmark   

Oh yeah, tryptophan is NOT gone for good.  Do some searching on the net for dietary suppliments for your dog or horse. 
Its out there - mail order.

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    SaintCyril
(Stranger)
07-12-02 12:11
No 331790
      One word Autoclave  Bookmark   

Every attempt I have made without the addition of an autoclave to mycolab have had poor yeild, with the addition of an autoclave, and an HEPA air filter (not hood type, just a room filter), and a commercial incubator I have always had great yeilds.  I was able to piclk up al the equipment as industrial surplus for less then $1000, if you have had one sucessful crop this is little to invest to be able to both do liquid propagation, and increase your yeailds dramatically. 

One word always about shrooms -->STERILITY<--[red]

SC

So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
07-12-02 18:28
No 331901
      biojammer, about doing an extraction from a ...  Bookmark   

biojammer, about doing an extraction from a brf/verm cake... would it be safe to eat the residue? i thought vermiculite was not edible? Wouldn't the brf cause an emultion that wouldn't evaporate? Would that would rule out using IPA or methanol? It's hard to grow on just brown rice flour.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-12-02 18:39
No 331907
      a very low yeilding way to do that (for ...  Bookmark   

a very low yeilding way to do that (for extraction of cake) MIGHT bee to blenderize the fucker...Mycelium will float, and provided the substrate was made up properly, it should sink. If one where to go this route, maybee a non-vermiculite casing would bee in order.  Straight birdseed can bee used as substrate, but make sure to rinse the sugars off of it after your pre-boil/soak. Vermiculite can bee eaten, but your bowels will bee mad at you. (not reccomended- unhealthy)

when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
 
 
 
 
    spamurai
(Stranger)
07-12-02 22:22
No 331976
      liquid culture, solid culture, whatever.  Bookmark   

SWIM has noticed that if you have grain-to-grain transfers down pat, you can take a fully colonized quart jar of rye grain and extract with something acidic (juices, HCl water, whatever, even ethanol if you dare to heat it and destroy the psilocin) and get a pretty decent tield of shroom cocktail out of it. 4 quart jars extracted makes about 2 liters where a dose is anywhere from 100mls on up. and like i said, grain-to-grain transfers can expand a single culture or spore germination to 1000 quarts of spawn in three transfers, according to stamets. thats without even using a flow hood.
there was soneone on the forest floor a while back who was talking about liquid culture in just the fashion you're taling about too, theres a patent on a particular culture media blend. mine that site for further details.
 
 
 
 
    Trenchcoat
(Hive Bee)
07-13-02 19:15
No 332276
      I ran across this tonight: http://www.  Bookmark   

I ran across this tonight:

http://www.moneyhackers.com/mu/_liquid_culture.html

Looks like mycelium CAN'T produce happy chems in liquid culture and as GOD said, it will have to be strained and allowed to pin first.

Better loving through chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
07-14-02 00:03
No 332348
      just to make myself clear- -stop agitation -allow ...  Bookmark   

just to make myself clear-
-stop agitation
-allow mat to grow
-induce pinning
THEN
-strain
-dry
-extract

dunno if itll bee high yeilding....but it will work none the less.



i FEEL funny.
 
 
 
 
    Yachaj
(Stranger)
07-19-02 08:04
No 334596
      6g maltose&0.5g British Marmite per 100ml medium  Bookmark   

Perhaps that these are already mentioned elsewere, but read these US patents. They work. 3183172 and 3192111

Unfortunately not all cubensis races will pin or fruit on Hofmann's medium (pinning is needed for getting alkaloids). But the PF Stropharia does. Average yield is 2 grams of dried biomass per 100ml of medium (in a 250ml container). Blueing is greatly enhanced when Marmite - I mean the classic British yeast/vegetable extract, not vegamite or Australian Marmite - is added to the medium. Half a gram per 100ml of medium is good.

Yachaj




bibliopharmacophile