dennis_pro (HyperLab Bee)
07-11-02 21:45
No 331585
      Where can i obtain phys-chem properties?  Bookmark   

It is interesting, where can i get phys-chem properties of substances in the internet? To be more concrete, i wanna to make 5-MeO-DMT from melatonin, formaldehyde and Al/Hg in EtOH. First, I'm interesting of melatonin, 5-MeO-triptamine and 5-MeO-NMT/5-MeO-DMT and these salts solubility information in different solvents (EtOH, acetone, hexane, water, NaOH, HCl). Help, people!

With best regards,
Dennis Prochko aka Wolf
 
 
 
 
    Mountain_Girl
(Hive Bee)
07-12-02 01:55
No 331638
      Try  Bookmark   

http://www.chemexper.com/header.html
http://chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com/
might be useful but probably still won't give you exactly what you want.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-12-02 06:53
No 331700
      no way  Bookmark   

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to reductively alkylate tryptamines due to cyclization to beta-carbolines. Use the search engine smile.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-14-02 15:55
No 332535
      ...short of using NaBH3CN and formaldehyde.  Bookmark   

...short of using NaBH3CN and formaldehyde. That one seems to work.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-14-02 21:40
No 332661
      20%  Bookmark   

... with yields around 20%. I don't believe higher yields...
 
 
 
 
    dennis_pro
(HyperLab Bee)
07-14-02 23:11
No 332712
      What about pH?  Bookmark   

Lilienthal, thank you for your warnings, but AFAIK beta-carbolines will produced when tryptamine is alkilated in presence of acids. What about neutral/basic solutions? Have you or SWIM tried this?

With best regards,
Dennis Prochko aka Wolf
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-15-02 05:16
No 332811
      It works!  Bookmark   

Lilienthal: In JMC 44(23), 3881 (2001) 5-Cyanotryptamine was reductively alkylated to 5-CN-DMT in 75% yield using that method (the details are on my page, and posted by me in this forum a few months ago).
 
 
 
 
    Antoncho
(Official Hive Translator)
07-18-02 00:20
No 333991
      Well, anyway.  Bookmark   

could someone with a good literature access please find those solubilities for us?

Should bee useful for many a generations of tryptamine-dreaming bees. We know someone has that kind of data in some university library, don't we? Or am i asking too much?


Anyway. Further on. Certainly, HCHO and Al sounds WAY too simplelaugh, esp. for tryptamine chemistry. However, no one (to my humble knowledge) ever actually tried doing this.

Moreover, Al/HCHO reductive methylation proceeds at neutral pH and at temp a lil bit above the ambient (guess can do it at  RT and longer time) - seem to bee ideal conditions. HCHO probably should bee added in 2 portions to minimize side-rxns.


Anyway, Dennis, accept my encouragement wink in your quest, and i hope someone will help you find out the physical properties you want.



Yours,


Antoncho
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-18-02 10:07
No 334166
      sceptical me  Bookmark   

I once tried catalytic transfer hydrogenation with Pd/C, formaline, and tryptamine in triethylamine(!) on a 1 mg scale. Independent on the conditions (e.g. neutral solvents instead of TEA) the main product (~ 80%?) was always a beta-carboline! Forget it, don't waste your time. Both, wanted and side product, go through the same intermediate. The only solution seems to be a ring substitution to alter the electronic properties of the ring to inhibit the reaction with the indole-2-position (-CN, -NO2...).
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-18-02 11:10
No 334198
      Lili: What about KrZ's 60-70% trials with ...  Bookmark   

Lili: What about KrZ's 60-70% trials with tryptamines? Are you writing them of as bragging too?
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-19-02 08:25
No 334608
      I don't know. Has it been repeated independently?  Bookmark   

I don't know. Has it been repeated independently? I remember a discussion about some calculation errors.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-05-02 18:44
No 353296
      Another Tryptamine alkylation  Bookmark   

N,N-Dimethyl-2-[5-[[(trifluoromethyl)sulfonyl]oxy]-1H-indol-3-yl]ethylamine Oxalate (5-MeSO3-DMT)

To a magnetically stirred solution of 18 (0.46 g, 1.5 mmol) and 37% formaldehyde (aqueous, 1.2 mL) in acetonitrile (6 mL) was added NaCNBH3 (0.29 g, 4.5 mmol). The mixture was acidified to pH 5 with acetic acid and stirring continued for 3 h. NaOH (10%, 30 mL) was added, after which the aqueous layer was extracted with CH2Cl2 (3x20 mL). The organic layers were combined and dried over MgSO4. Filtration and removal of the solvent in vacuo gave an oil, which was subjected to column chromatography (SiO2, eluting with CH2Cl2/MeOH (5:1)), affording 193 mg (38%) of a colorless oil. Recrystallization of the oxalate salt from MeOH/ether afforded 164 mg (26%) of white crystals: mp 176-177C;

Ref: J. Med. Chem. 39, 4717-4726 (1996)