GC_MS (Hive Bee)
09-13-02 13:22
No 355957
      How dangerous is tetranitromethane?  Bookmark   

SWiM was reading one of Shulgin's articles today: A T Shulgin, Convenient synthesis of myristicinaldehyde. Can J Chem 46 (1968) 75-77. Shulgin uses tetranitromethane to make a beta-nitrostyrene substance, which can be converted to an aldehyde. Off course, SWiM would like to use the beta-nitrostyrene to do other stuff wink.
Using TFSE and browsing some www sites, it appeared that tetranitromethane is some dangerous stuff. This doesn't surprise SWiGC_MS, since there might be some steric hindrance (which make TNT - trinitrotoluene - a dangerous substance). But he still wonders how dangerous tetranitromethane actually is, so if there is anybee who has tried it before, SWiM would like to hear some experiences. Also, he wonders if less nitrated alkanes could do the job if tetranitromethane is too dangerous: tri- or dinitromethane?

WOMAN.ZIP: Great Shareware, but be careful of viruses...
 
 
 
 
    TheBlindGenius
(Hive Bee)
09-13-02 13:25
No 355959
      Very  Bookmark   

It will explode almost "randomly."  Swim's chem teacher said a few years ago they made some at the university and didn't want to throw out the excess so they put it in a climate-controlled chemical storage shed and a few weeks later kaboom, no more storage shed.  read TS2 there is a story about it also.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-13-02 15:18
No 355970
      Use NaNO2 and Iodine in ethylene glycol under an ...  Bookmark   

Use NaNO2 and Iodine in ethylene glycol under an inert atmosphere instead. No explosions, and as good if not better yields.
 
 
 
 
    chilly_willy
(Newbee)
09-13-02 19:40
No 356014
      Hey....  Bookmark   

Be aware of ANY reagent that starts with tetra/tri-nitro..

-
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
09-14-02 01:08
No 356082
      a carcinogen also  Bookmark   

Oxidizer. Reacts with a wide variety of materials including organics, brass, zinc, cotton, sodium, pyridine, toluene, aluminium, finely powdered metals. Heat, friction and shock sensitive. May decompose or react with other chemicals violently.

Very toxic. May cause serious liver damage. Experimental carcinogen. Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin.

(from the MSDS on tetranitromethane.)
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/TE/tetranitromethane.html
Also an information sheet boiling points, storage, etc.
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/tetranitromethane/recognition.html#storage
 
 
 
 
    Precursor2112
(Hive Bee)
09-14-02 03:30
No 356118
      This Does sound  Bookmark   

LIke the ASS kicker.
I just read the name and thought really dangerous, really explosive, probably will re-animate dead bodies...



"None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free."
 
 
 
 
    Flip
(Hive Bee)
09-14-02 20:39
No 356309
      TNT  Bookmark   

I'd look out for just about anything with more than one nitro substituent.  Two, maybe i dunno, but 3 or more and you got one hell of an explosion if you fuck up with it.

Conclusion /nm./: the place where you got tired of thinking.
 
 
 
 
    Kinetic
(Hive Bee)
09-15-02 01:24
No 356363
      Shulgin interview
(Rated as: good read)
 Bookmark   

From http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/psychoactives_writings8.shtml :

Sasha pointed to one bottle filled with a mass of needle-like white
crystals suspended in clear liquid.  "What's that?" he quizzed me.  I
peered at the label... C(NO2)4.  "Surely that's some kind of explosive?"
I answered.  He looked pleased.  "Tetra-nitro-methane.  As a liquid it's
not too bad -- the tri-nitro- is worse -- but once it gets cool enough
to crystallize, I try not to touch the bottle again until spring."


Sounds more like a quote from Alice in Wonderland.

 
 
 
 
    Ment2bee
(Stranger)
09-16-02 22:45
No 357049
      C(NO2)4  Bookmark   

C(NO2)4 has been suggested for use as a chemical warfare agent in the past... Might be of use to guage the danger of this compound.
 
 
 
 
    lugh
(Moderator)
09-17-02 02:09
No 357123
      High Explosives  Bookmark   

Tetranitromethane is a high explosive, it was used in the V weapons by the Nazis frown
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-17-02 02:18
No 357126
      And you get a headache when smelling it, too.  Bookmark   

And you get a headache when smelling it, too.
 
 
 
 
    Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
09-17-02 14:25
No 357275
      > it was used in the V weapons by the Nazis ...  Bookmark   

> it was used in the V weapons by the Nazis

That's the first time I've heard that, and I don't believe it. From an economic standpoint it isn't very interesting to use it as an explosive (which is very important during a lenghty war like WW2), apart from all the security concerns.

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.
 
 
 
 
    lugh
(Moderator)
09-17-02 15:02
No 357281
      Oxidizer  Bookmark   

It was used as an oxidizer because nitric acid was too corrosive.
 
 
 
 
    hermanroempp
(Newbee)
09-17-02 20:21
No 357335
      Tetranitromethane in V-weapons?  Bookmark   

Hmmm, I've never heard of tetranitromethane being used in the V-weapons. Maybe you're mistaken by the fact that methyl nitrate was tested in a gelled composition with cellulose nitrate + sodium nitrate (oxidizer) for the V-1 warheads. But this composition was only experimental, it never reached the field...the explosives used were either amatols or the trialenes (RDX + TNT + aluminium in various percentages).
And nitric acid was used as an oxidizer in the rocket motor of some experimental rockets, it was even intended to use nitric acid in the first stage of the large A9/A10 project, the so-called "New York Rocket".

Quidquid agis, prudenter agas et respice finem!
 
 
 
 
    lugh
(Moderator)
09-17-02 22:15
No 357373
      Corrosion  Bookmark   

Because of the extreme corrosiveness of nitric acid, pure tetranitromethane was used experimentally as an oxidizer, but it's freezing point made it unsatisfactory. A mixture with 30% nitrogen dioxide was found to freeze at -27C, and a total of ten tons of this mixture were shipped to Peenemunde for testing. The point being made is that tetranitromethane is a very hazardous compound, not suited for our purposes when other, much safer methods exist  smile
 
 
 
 
    ClearLight
(Hive Addict)
09-17-02 23:05
No 357398
      nitrogen tetroxide  Bookmark   


 and aniline in the komet rocket plane... various *-Stoff names for the nazi fuels, including h202...



Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
 
 
 
 
    bujinkan
(Hive Addict)
09-18-02 01:54
No 357474
      No current estimates of the amount of ...  Bookmark   

No current estimates of the amount of tetranitromethane intentionally produced have been found in the literature. In Germany during World War II, attempts were made to synthesize large amounts for use as a substitute for nitric acid in rocket fuel. This method, involving the nitration of acetic anhydride with nitric acid, allowed a production rate of up to 10 tons within a few weeks, but was costly. However, by the end of the war, a less-costly method was devised using acetylene and nitric acid, with a reported capacity of 10 kg/day
http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/8_RoC/RAC/Tetranitromethane.html
Tetranitromethane has been reported to be an atmospheric pollutant emitted as a byproduct of explosives produced in factories owned by the U.S. Government. The estimated "worst case" pollutant level of tetranitrotoluene in the vicinity of the factories was 20 mg/m3 (about 2.5 ppm). The current time-weighted average/threshold limit value is 1 ppm (8 mg/m3), and OSHA's permissible exposure limit is also 1 ppm (8 mg/m3). No quantitative information concerning an odor threshold is available, but the chemical at concentrations in excess of 1 ppm causes lacrimation and upper respiratory irritation and at 0.4 ppm may cause mild irritation. The National Occupational Exposure Survey, conducted by NIOSH from 1980 to 1983, indicated that 1,445 workers, including 230 women, were potentially exposed to tetranitromethane in 1980.
 
 
 
 
    jimwig
(Stranger)
09-20-02 02:35
No 358303
      cliche= "if you have to ask, then...."  Bookmark   

sorry but in this case- dealing with a potential explosive then maybe you should go outside.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-20-02 03:15
No 358324
      As we are no longer discussing drug related ...  Bookmark   

As we are no longer discussing drug related chemistry in this thread, I hereby declare it closed.