yinga (Stranger)
09-17-02 19:12
No 357531
      Yet another A/B DMT post  Bookmark   

When extracting from MHRB, swim keeps getting oily DMT.  The acidic water was backwashed 3 times with warm naptha, and the non-polar was washed 3x with basic h2o, to no avail.  SWIM has now decided to perform a second A/B, which leads me to my question.  Why is that for A/B extractions on substances such as MDMA, the non-polar solvent does not need to sit with the basic h2o for such a substantial amount of time as it does with DMT (3 days has been recommended to swim)?  What makes the DMT take so long to migrate to the non-polar from the water? 

After letting the non-polar (naphtha) sit with the basic for   3 days swim now wants to perform a second A/B as stated earlier.  After the non polar is separated, acidic h2o will be added, and how long should this mixture be left to sit?  3 days like the reverse process?  Thanks for any help.
(Hive Addict)
09-18-02 17:22
No 357868
      Yeah, swim just cleaned up some oily crap (got ...  Bookmark   

Yeah, swim just cleaned up some oily crap (got lazy with the defat and suffered for it)-
He took the oily crap, dissolved it in a small amount of naphta, hit it with 2-3X the amount of H3O+, let it sit for a week, defat X3, basify (wont get the super-noticable color change this time around, so check the pH ->~10)- extract with warm naphta, let it sit 2-3 days, backwashed X2 5%NaOH, X1 cold DH2O, X2 brine, evap in the fridge.
Goddamn!  Them where some clean assed crystals!  They looked wet, they where all shiney and sparkley!
Swim went for a second pull from the origional stuff dissolved in naphta and got nada!  The one pull was sufficient, but swiy may want to go for it anyways just to make sure.

09-18-02 18:21
No 357902
      question still stands  Bookmark   

GOD, thanks!  But my question still remains for anyone who knows or might have an idea (surely some bee more knowledgable than I must):  what makes the DMT take so long to migrate from layer to layer compared to other chemicals?
09-19-02 14:21
No 358223
      Post 344579 possibly indicates that it does take ...  Bookmark   

Post 344579 (ClearLight: "CL's Experience...", Tryptamine Chemistry) possibly indicates that it does take a while to migrate.  If nobody else has anything to say on the matter swim will probably probably try an A/B on previously extracted  goo as GOD suggests except with times shortened to < 1 hour.
(Hive Bee)
09-20-02 08:01
No 358520
      Whats considered a "good price" for MHRB?  Bookmark   

Whats considered a "good price" for MHRB? Swim found a place askin for roughly 40-45 bucks per 250g, then found other places asking as high as 140 per 250. Can I expect the cheaper place to have a lower alkaloid MHRB? I thought this was the case with sas oil, till I took a chance on the lower priced guy.. wow, learned my lesson there. Go with cheaper! smile

& I'm, somethin of a phenom, 1 puff of da cron, I'm un-stopable.   
(Hive Addict)
09-20-02 11:17
No 358545
      its a crapshoot, go cheap first.  Bookmark   

its a crapshoot, go cheap first.  Thanks for the writeup MAx, swim will definatly give it a whirl next time around!

(Hive Addict)
09-20-02 16:35
No 358622
      fuck this shit...  Bookmark   

 Argghh.. cl can't stand it any more... when i get back from italy, i'll do a flash chromo preliminary cleanup and write up the definitive dmt extraction from mhrb, including getting rid of the phenolic acids and other gunk that muck up your extractions prior to the a/b recrystallization....

 madmax is on the right track using cellulose(filter paper) to knock off some of the crap...

 After i get it mastered, i'll do one on using kitty litter...

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
(Hive Bee)
02-26-03 03:19
No 411894
      base->nonpolar is quick  Bookmark   

Or so a fairly experienced acacia extractor tells me (no it aint my swim) Shake it to buggery (make sure pH is nice and high so emulsions don't form - 13+) and by the time it's settled (maybe an hour max) it's all across.

So they tell me. Well, makes sense to me, after A/Bing meth, this one time, it was like magick, shook it up and vooom! it was across phases.

If you getting weak output, probably weak input. If you are having trouble with emulsions, try salt and/or higher pH. I have heard people say that pH 15 and 16 works quite well. Certainly 13 my experience says isn't too high. Good visual judge- if it's dark, almost black, and kinda soupy, it's probably alkaline enough.

If you've got a local plant, quit getting mhrb, as much as it might be one of the strongest sources, it is way more expensive than a trip down to the bush and a trek. Might take a few times but you'll feel better having got the stuff yourself. If you're in the US, there's desmanthus and arundo donax, (though the latter is said to not be as nice) we're blessed here in OZ, there's maidenii and obtusifolia (all over the east coast up to just short of the tropic of capricorn).

Oh, and I think I have mentioned this a few times today - dmt makes nice crystally tartrate salts. NEWS NEWS! nobody has done this before. I looked at the options, and it seems that tartaric acid (tarting agent legal AFAIK anywhere in foods) is the most stable and soluble. And sure enough, it makes nice tidy crystals. I will have pictures some time soon, possibly tomorrow, my swim is working on it.

Quit this freakout about using needles with psychedelics. It is completely stupid when it comes to DMT. So much is wasted in a smoked dose yet and IV dose is very close to the same (just a tad faster) and if one makes a neutral salt (has to be between pH 6 and 7) it can be IM dosed as well, giving a 40 ish minute experience. Not to mention that an IV dose is less than half of an 'official' inhaled dose (so you can get two IV doses for the price of a smoked dose, I know where my money is).

DMT was a nightmare for my swim before he discovered making salts and IV dosing. he can't be the only one. Plus making pure freebases is a pain in the ass. Considering plenty of people IV less than 80% purity drugs all the time, with practise better than that kind of purity can be achieved with dmt tartrate. And nobody has looked at other salts really. I suspect that though the HCl doesn't crystallise, it's probably quite good in a needle too. Phosphate, citrate, ascorbate, sulphate - these will all make unstable salts. Tartrate is the most stable counterion that I have seen other than hydrochloride. And it does make crystals with dmt.

(for emphasis) dmt tartrate grows crystals very nicely. doit.

I know naaaathing.
02-26-03 04:07
No 411907
      Re: I have heard people say that pH 15 and 16...  Bookmark   

I have heard people say that pH 15 and 16 works quite well.


(Hive Bee)
02-26-03 14:40
No 412055
      pH meters can measure it  Bookmark   

I know that sounds funny, I didn't say it, it was someone over at dmt world. I think they were speaking of what their pH meter was saying. I haven't actually made up such a solution myself and tested it, but when I first got my meter and turned it on it was jumping all over the place, well over 14 at times.

What do you call it when the concentration of OH ions exceeds pH 14 then? Like for example how it is possible to mix NaOH 50/50 with water (this is called 'loog' and it's used in textile dying with - I think - napthol dyes)

Saturation perhaps?

I know naaaathing.
(Hive Bee)
02-26-03 15:58
No 412077
      Seems contradictory what you said in that...  Bookmark   

Seems contradictory what you said in that post. Can NaOH make pH over 14 or not? Or are you talking about, for example, the catalytically induced excess of hydronium ions that could occur.

Not too willing to put my precious pH meter in solutions much stronger than 10g NaOH / 100ml, don't know what it might do.

I know naaaathing.