El_Zorro (Hive Bee)
10-26-02 06:46
No 372765
      ethylamine  Bookmark   

Ok, I'm in need of some ethylamine.  A lot.  Can anyone think of an OTC product that can be hydrolyzed or otherwise easily converted into ethylamine?  Are there any pure OTC sources?  I tried a substructure search on chemexper.com, but no luck.  Any thoughts?

Who is that masked man?
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 07:21
No 372774
      propionamide  Bookmark   

propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine

(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)

(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)

 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 07:28
No 372777
      supply  Bookmark   

btw, is ethylamine watched?  can it be easily purchased (as HCl salt) by joe-schmoe?
 
 
 
 
    starlight
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 11:53
No 372826
      ethylamine is definitely watched  Bookmark   

in the US at least.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 19:35
No 372910
      why?  Bookmark   

Why?  obviously there are many analogs, but any controlled substances directly use this in their synth?  (tryptamines, maybe?- aurelius doesn't spend a bunch of time in this area)
 
 
 
 
    nutlin
(Stranger)
10-26-02 19:52
No 372922
      I think ive seen it mentioned in a few synth's ...  Bookmark   

I think ive seen it mentioned in a few synth's before. Search rhodiums site and you should find what its used to make.

Besides drug synthesis, Its aslo used to make explosives.
 
 
 
 
    jimwig
(Newbee)
10-26-02 21:03
No 372948
      Aurelius - "(propionic acid can be had from MEK ...  Bookmark   

Aurelius -

"(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)"

would mind posting the details to this oh so sort after synth?
 
 
 
 
    El_Zorro
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 21:10
No 372950
      Yeah, it's used in several MDE synths.  Bookmark   

Yeah, it's used in several MDE synths.  I didn't know it was used in explosives manufacturing, though, that's a new one on me.

Aurelius- Do you have any procedures, links, or refs for those synths?

Who is that masked man?
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 21:50
No 372955
      refs  Bookmark   

propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine
hoffmann degradation/rearrangement (can't remember which one, but it does happen)

(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)
../rhodium/chemistry /eleusis/methylamine27.html
just use the acetamide procedure, it should theoretically run the same way

(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)
haloform rxn.  everybody just thinks about testing for methyl ketones, but it does have synthetic application.  it's kind of nice because it doesn't oxidize C=C bonds.
 
 
 
 
    El_Zorro
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 02:27
No 373032
      So really all one would have to do is react ...  Bookmark   

So really all one would have to do is react Ca(OCl)2 and MEK, and distill out the propionic acid.  Then use the propionic acid just as you would use acetamide in the hoffman rearrangement to get methylamine, but you would get ethylamine instead.  Looks great, Aurelius.

Who is that masked man?
 
 
 
 
    jimwig
(Newbee)
10-27-02 20:08
No 373240
      oh thankyou thankyou now just one more DAQ- if ...  Bookmark   

oh thankyou thankyou

now just one more DAQ- if you would be so kind

the "haloform rxn" you mention ---- is that "(Hypohalite version)" reaction reference in the Eulesis piece???

 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
10-27-02 22:24
No 373316
      Acid chloride  Bookmark   

I think he is talking about an acid chloride???DOn't know though? Such as thionyl chloride or POCl3??
VL_

So much game I could sell a hooker some pussy
Vl_
 
 
 
 
    PrimoPyro
(Hive Prodigy)
10-27-02 22:24
No 373317
      Haloform and Hofmann  Bookmark   

The haloform and hofmann hypohalite degradation both share the use of hypochlorites, but they are different reactions.

The haloform uses calcium (or sodium, etc) hypochlorite with a methyl ketone to form a carboxylic acid salt and chloroform. Thus MEK gives sodium propionate and chloroform.

The sodium propionate is acidified and the propionic acid distilled off for recovery.

If the amide of the propionic acid (propionamide) is made, then more hypochlorite can react with it to induce the hofmann hypohalite degradation, forming ethylamine and CO2 gas.

As long as you dont pay through the roof for hypochlorites, and as long as you dont need tons of ethylamine, this is a good route to this compound with OTC chemicals.

PrimoPyro
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 22:56
No 373329
      Hey PrimoPyro, instead of acidifying and heading ...  Bookmark   

Hey PrimoPyro, instead of acidifying and heading straight to the distillation, you can cut down the volume a bit.  the propionic acid formed on acidification will now be in the chloroform. separate off the chloroform/acid mix.  now distill.  (of course you can dry the mix before hand, but that's up to the person distilling) 
 
 
 
 
    Nemo_Tenetur
(Hive Bee)
10-28-02 09:26
No 373521
      propionates  Bookmark   

propionic acid/sodium propionate is used as preservative in food and should be available.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
10-28-02 21:06
No 373723
      salts  Bookmark   

true, aurelius forgot about that. 
 
 
 
 
    jimwig
10-29-02 19:50
      damn
(Rated as: insignificant)
 Bookmark   
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Bee)
11-27-02 21:58
No 383990
      correction  Bookmark   

aurelius' post above isn't quite correct

Propionic acid + Ammonium hydroxide -> ammonium propionate, not propionamide

however, any of it's esters used in a similar manner will gives amides to be used in this synthesis.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-27-02 23:45
No 384008
      Ammonium propionate dehydrates to propionamide at ...  Bookmark   

Ammonium propionate dehydrates to propionamide at high temp. You can also fuse the acid and the ester with Urea.
 
 
 
 
    Aurelius
(Hive Addict)
11-28-02 05:32
No 384142
      procedure  Bookmark   

do you have a procedure for those two pathways? mostly just need the temperatures/reflux times for the two reactions.  thanks again Rhodium! 

../rhodium/chemistry /amide.preparation.html
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-28-02 11:35
No 384268
      Check out Vogel's book at my page too.  Bookmark   

Check out Vogel's book at my page too.
 
 
 
 
    pickle11
(Stranger)
11-30-02 09:36
No 384851
      ethyl iodode and ammonia  Bookmark   

the comlete book of ecstacy
chapter 9
LSD synth
../rhodium/chemistry /tcboe/chapter9.html

"the other syntheses is diethylamine. It too makes you a marked man. Clandestine chemistry to the rescue. Diethylamine is a side product in the synthesis of ethylamine from ammonia and ethyl iodide which can be maximized with with a mole ratio of 1 to 2 respectively. It can be freed from the other two hydrochlorides (ethylamine, bp 16C and triethylamine, bp 89C) by basifying with excess 25% NaOH followed by fractional distillation (diethylamine, bp 55.5C). "