PolytheneSam (Master Searcher)
11-20-02 01:52
No 381399
      Electrolytic HBr  Bookmark   

I wonder if there is a way to make HI electrolytically.
Patent US4203813

The hardest thing to explain is the obvious
(Chief Bee)
11-20-02 02:50
No 381437
      Electrolytic HI  Bookmark   

Yes, in Patent US5423960 and Patent US4544459 they seem to pull it off.
(Hive Bee)
11-20-02 21:43
No 381658
      Wow ! Your title is true.  Bookmark   

DL´ed and quick read the patent in german and this is a rare gem I want to say.
I miss the rating of the post?

I have read the HI patents before and ask myself if the HBr cell isn´t applicable for HI "as is"? What is speaking against this (ab)use?

Did anybody exept me (and MasterSearcher probably) stumble over the possible use of plain PVC as ionexchange membrane? And the other dirt-cheap OTC materials to make the membrane mentioned? No? What a pity.

Membranes are the future! (and biotransformations of course)

now or never
(Master Searcher)
11-21-02 01:56
No 381713
      Wow, Rhodium. It looks like you might be able to ...  Bookmark   

Wow, Rhodium.  It looks like you might be able to use electricity in place of red phosphorus in the RP/I2 synth.

The hardest thing to explain is the obvious
(Hive Addict)
11-23-02 01:46
No 382426
      Mag-Neat-o-bees!!!  Bookmark   

This is really cool!!!
Ibee still ahsn't linked out to the patent yet or Rhodiums links, but Ibee's been dickin around with hydrobromic acid! He's been trying to extract it from a water soluble flux! His initial thoughts were to employ it somehow in the extraction Bizness!(Hey...Quit Laughinlaugh...ya'll know how off the beaten path ibee can get!!!smile) Not much was found initially in the five chemistry books, but further digging in College Chemistry has turned up some gems about the Hydrohalic Acids.
Aqueous solutions of the hydrogen halides are called:
•Hydrofluoric Acid
•Hydrochloric Acid
•Hydrobromic Acid
•Hydriodic Acid
1.Properties Dependant upon Hydrogen Ion

Hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid, but the other hydrohalic acids are very strong. All of them react with the metals above hydrogen in the activity series, halide salts and hydrogen being formed. The reaction with zinc is given by
Zn + 2H+ + (2X-) __> Zn2+ + (2X-) + H2^

Notice in the equation that the hydrogen ion acts as an oxidizing agent. The hydrohalic acids neutralize aqueous bases, forming salts and water. Their reaction with sodium hydroxide is given by the equation
(Na+) + OH- + H+ + (X-) __> (Na+) + (X-) + H2O

Well anEway, you get the idea!!! That's too much typinlaugh
Ibee is going to start investigating this in more detail!
Orgy: If that patent is in German...Ibee is screwed!smile
Thanx Psam and Rhodium!

Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
(Miss High & Mighty)
11-24-02 00:48
No 382677
      I feel this is very applicable to HI production ...  Bookmark   

I feel this is very applicable to HI production as is.
Nice one Sam.

Seems to negate the need for sonification also.(good thing as degredation seems to be of concern)
I feel the properties/quality of your membrane is only a factor in regards to the purity of you HI(e.g exchange selectivity)and the cell fouling potential of the halogen used.
I am now of the belief that this will work with clay,porcelain,condoms,asbestos batten ect.as well as VPVC,teflon and all.Another bonus

Seems to raise hope of an iodide salt such as KI to be used as a starter.
Do you believe a liquid cathode is called for and if so hows about a slurry,say from semi evaporated tincture of iodine/potassium iodide?Minimal alchohol of course,or hows about an acetic acid/iodine/KI slurry.
(Feels like Ive heard all this before somewhere)
If not what would be the ideal equivalent for liquid bromine when talking iodine do you think?

I take it H2S04/phosphoric,would have the same properties in relation to oxidisation ect of bromine in this environment,as they would on Iodine?So this would not be of importance.
But if it is:-
Hows about a finely ground carbon used as a semi solid/slurry  catholyte?

Bang! get rid of Iodine,and phosphorus in one foul swoop.
Not to mention a fair bit of glassware.
Soon me thinks.

Always aiming for a one pot,and out of shear curiosity,
could anyone extrapolate toward the effect current would have on the ephedrine molecule.Doesnt realy matter I spose`as the two pot seems nearly doneable.

I hope you remember my PM to you.In it you mentioned temperature as being the main hurdle.Does it go any further than that?
My only concern at this stage is the effect of current on the reducing ability/mechanisms of the evolved HIacid/gas mix.
Hope Ive made myself a little easier to understand this time.

Its getting better all the time.

Oh the JOy.
Fuck Yeah.