Tim_Foil (Stranger)
12-23-02 15:20
No 391990
      Do these races of mushroom spores even exist?  Bookmark   

Ive been using the WWW and the TFSE to get info on 6 different spore races.  I have found 4 of the 6. I am aware that some go by more than one name.  But I havent found anything on the "Creeper spore race" and the "F+ spore race"  Has anyone heard of these, or do they not exist?

(Hive Bee)
12-24-02 04:25
No 392258
      ?  Bookmark   

F+ as far as I know was a joke, and creeper is almost certainly a name for something else, Golden Teacher or PF's B+. Those sound like the names that those nafarious vendors use....the sort of vendor that sells PCEcuadors for 98 bux a spore print under some name like "super speedy maga potent ultimate shroom". I could be mistaken on the f+, someone might have done some hybrid work, but the 'creeper' name reeks of the high priced vendors ripping people off.

You are talking about ps. cubensis strains right?

 In any case i would just go to one of the more reputable vendors and they will have every strain of ps. cubensis ever   discovered at least listed. try 'ryche hawk', UTSE.
(Hive Bee)
12-24-02 04:30
No 392261
      I'm not at all into naturally occuring drugs :)  Bookmark   

But these links might might be of some help:

http://www.fsre.org/ <-- Temp. Down, it'll work soon :)

Good Luck!

"Turn on, Tune in and Drop Out"
(Hive Bee)
12-24-02 04:39
No 392267
      http://www.theforestfloor.org/ http://www.  Bookmark   

12-24-02 13:32
No 392383
      Try pans  Bookmark   

I had much more good experiences with Panaeolus spp. is maybe because of climate where I live
P. cyanescens is the best, P. sphinctrinus, and subbalteatus from nature are good, but not so potent .
12-24-02 19:57
No 392483
      thankyou chilly  Bookmark   

My uneducated guess would be from what your saying is that the F+ is actually the B+, which i found info on the B+ easy, and thought it was strange why no F+ info was anywhere to be found.

and yes im speaking of ps cub.

Golden Teacher is also known as "PF Hawaiian Race" so im going to assume its more likely to be "B+"

thanks for the reply

12-24-02 20:03
No 392485
      Ill try the others  Bookmark   

I did use TFSE ....but didnt find what i needed to know on .....fanaticus.com ......shroomry.org ........or thehawkeye.com....... but ill try the other links that everyone else has recommeneded.

thanks again

(Hive Bee)
12-24-02 20:49
No 392497
      Re: someone might have done some hybrid work any ...  Bookmark   

someone might have done some hybrid work

any ideas on how ones goes about doing this?

see you auntie
12-24-02 21:06
No 392506
      Making a monospore culture!  Bookmark   

Making a hybride!
This proces is called Monospore mushroom cultivation
Yoo need to have two diferent shroom species that belong to same genus, sometimes even family.
From one spore from species "A" with "male sex" you need to grow primary mycelium, and from spp. "B" (female sex) another prim. micelium on the same supstrate.
If they are compatibile they will become one, secondary micelium from what you can get primordia aka mushroom.
This process asks special equipment, tehniques and knowledge.
Identification of spore sex is not easy, and taking one spore from print is even more complicated.
Secondary micelium has comlete number of chromosomes (?spelling), and primary has only half.
12-24-02 21:08
No 392508
      Cant help u with hybrid info...  Bookmark   

Im having a hard enough time finding 1/2 pint wide mouth canning jars.......No one carries them outside the traditional canning season around here. 

12-24-02 21:10
No 392510
      Usual hybride  Bookmark   

Agaricus bisporus (usualy on your table) is mushroom that has been created by man and sudenly we have it nature, the same is for Pleurotus spp.
12-24-02 21:12
No 392512
      Size of container is irrelevant, the biger the ...  Bookmark   

Size of  container is irrelevant, the biger the better if you monitor temp. inside
12-24-02 21:40
No 392520
      "Size of Container"  Bookmark   

I havent seen any reports on the PF Tek method of using anything other than 1/2 pint size jars.  In fact I believe they encouraged not to try doubling the ingredients for the use of pint sized jars. 

So, Im not saying size matters in this case, I just know what ive read from the PF Tek to be reliable information.  Im Not saying your info isnt reliable.  I like the idea of a few pint jars vs. several 1/2 pint size jars taking up space.

12-25-02 01:08
No 392568
      Containers  Bookmark   

Tim man, PF tek method is developed for people with no propper education and equipment for shroom growing. SIze of container is 1/2 pint because micelium conquers it faster than biger one, in bigger cont. temp in the middle can go over 35C if atmosphere around is 22-25C what will kill the micelium.
Working (sterilizaation, terarium construction ) with 1 L and 5L container in your kitchen is not the same.
Higher fungi (ex. basidiomycetes, where psilocybes belong) can develop micelium from spore faster than their enemies (in case of infection with other lower fungi) and defend teritory, so if container is small time of conquering substrate (defense building) will be shorter.
There are many good reasons for choosing smaler containers for the begining, but with time you will edfinetly change it.
If you are interested in growing, sand me PM, there are many things that are not mentioned in PF tek method.
(Hive Bee)
12-25-02 10:43
No 392669
      lol screw pint jars what a waste of time  Bookmark   

Screw that pf bullshit jar moron tek crapola. Utter waste of time. How much do you think a 1/2 pint jar is going to yeild that is 1/2 vermiculite? Decent dry weight yield is 10 percent of dry weight of the grain. Like building a car an atom at a time or doing 1/20th scale reactions. PF tek is great for selling PF syringes.

Myco bags, 22 quart pressure cooker, whole grain organic rye or brown rice, spray bottle, incubator made from a rubbermaid inside another matching rubbermaid with water and a fishtank heater at 83F, and spore syringes.  Simmer the grain for 40 minutes. Rinse and drain after cooking. Close the bag tops with clothes pins. PC 5 bags at a time @ 15 psi for 90 minutes with a plate over them so they dont clog the pc vents. After they have cooled staple, tape or impulse seal the bags shut. Figure 6 to 8 cups of dry grain for 5 bags. Wait till they are room temperature. You can do 10 bags easily with 1 syringe. Inject towards a corner of the bag. Wear a dust mask and run a hepa filter before injecting bags.  No hepa filter?, then build a glove box even if its just a clean trash can on its side with plastic over the front of it. Wipe insertion spot with alchohol, shake syringe, flame the needle tip till glowing red, let the needle cool a bit, inject 1 CC, tape bag injection hole shut, repeat until done. 2 Disposable lighters work to flame the needle, alternate lighters between bags so the lighter cools off. With bags you can thoroughly break up the grain once you see some growth so the whole bag colonizes quicker. When the bags are done incubating and you need to start harvesting slit them open at the top on the side the bag top folds down towards so they get a bit more air.  Or with rye transfer to pausterized grain. Mist and harvest the bags thru the slit. Lose a bag toss the infection. 100+ bags from the right vendor are 30 cents each or less. This easier than pf tek for a newbie who is not a moron and a hell of alot more useful. You can grow them in the incubator, though they will need less heat after incubation, a light source, and air. Maximum 8 hours light, at least 16 hours of darkness.

If you get a 10 percent dry yield you could get up to 10 ounces with 10 bags assuming 6 pounds of dry grain total.  Of course you will probably lose a bag or 2.  Do the math and figure out how many PF jars you need for a potential 4 ounces. Even if you suck you will probably get atleast 4 ounces from 10 bags including lost bags.

F+ and Creeper may or may not be new strains. F+ is supposedly some new Florida strain though its authenticity is being debated.

No insult meant to PF, his technique does work for people. The yields blow huge goats from everything I have read about PF jars. Skip this crap. Probably need 100 jars to equal 10 bags. No nasty vermiculite either, no grinding rice, the bags are not heat traps like the jars.

Not a chemist I just follow directions on the box mix
12-25-02 17:31
No 392719
      For Panaeolus spp. growing  Bookmark   

10x Petry dishes wih 1-2 mm of supstrate made from 10 g Agar, 1 L dH2O in witch 250 g potato an 100g carrot has been cooked and 20g maltoze (optional) , pH sligtly basic, sterilise. Infect with spores from print with metal vire previously flamedsmile, cool with cotton in witch ethanol has been spilled.
When micelium has colonized supstrate (22-25C) is ready for transfer in 20 X 1 L glass container (sterilized) with rice and vermiculite inside. Let it grow. When is fully colonized, leave for another 5 days. Mix this with compost 1:5-6 and wait for fungus(18C) . Water and light ar necessary!

Carcrash is right 1/2 pint jar is too small!
12-25-02 18:00
No 392731
      Ease up on the methods for a bit  Bookmark   

1st off, I appreciate any and every bit of knowledge a person like "Odin" tries to give me.  I dont understand how you peeps got so educated and good at mushroom cultivation.  This is something ive never done.  Im simply just a person who loves the shroom experience and im sick of never, never, ever, ever, getting any.  So, If and when I decide to do it, it will be the simpliest way, for the first time that is.  Which so far that is the "hippee-neglect tek" .

Im not interested in the sales part of it.  I want them all for myself.  wink

(Hive Bee)
12-25-02 23:12
No 392806
      If you fail to grow mushroom, you can eat ...  Bookmark   

If you fail to grow mushroom, you can eat mycelium cake(on agar if its white and not infected).
Selling halucinogenic psylocibin shorooms is illegal even here where I live, but you can give them to your friends who will return in some other way. Thats the beauty of mass growing.
(Hive Bee)
12-26-02 04:17
No 392871
      Which so far that is the "hippee-neglect tek" .  Bookmark   

Which so far that is the "hippee-neglect tek" .

not again. this isnt the place to learn about shrooms. http://www.shroomery.org
12-26-02 06:25
No 392885
      "this isnt the place to learn about shrooms"  Bookmark   

I agree with ya chilly.  My original question shows i was was just wanting some info on some unidentified spores.  However, in the process, it seems like peeps have volunteered their knowledge, which in turn kinda makes this a place u can learn from........

and with the shroomry.org link.......are u trying to say thats the appropriate place to learn or what?

(Hive Bee)
12-27-02 04:35
No 393174
      yes  Bookmark   

Yes. @ the shroomery, go to the grow find section on the left hand side, if it is still there....i havent been there in a while. Also read the Shroomery FAQ. Any questions, ask AnnoNymer, or a moderator, and trust me: they know what they are talking about. Almost everything you read there will be very accurate.
(Hive Bee)
12-29-02 22:45
No 393946
      however, there are many knowledgeable bees...  Bookmark   

however, there are many knowledgeable bees when it comes to this area..SWIM had success with PFTek, but then he moved on to bigger and better methods..ryche hawk ain't bad either....among others...dig around, learn from it, try again wink

see you auntie
(Hive Bee)
12-30-02 02:45
No 394008
      Re: F+ as far as I know was a joke F+ stands...  Bookmark   

F+ as far as I know was a joke

F+ stands for Florida+. It was sold by some place that sounds like thebigguy.com (hope the sources nazis don't throw me in a concentration camp for that one), as was the Creeper strain you mentioned. F+ was one of my favorite strains. I've heard good reports from others as well. I have no experience with the Creeper strain. God bless the Golden Teacher. Exault her wombe, make merry her hair. May magic mushrooms help spread joy, happiness, love, peace, harmony, tranquility, connectedness, and all that is NOT HATE to the entire human and sheep specieses.

Better loving through chemistry.
12-30-02 20:33
No 394230
      F+ Joke?  Bookmark   

ok, first u said F+ was a joke and the u said it was one of your favorite strains?  Im slightly confused. 

I seen an F+ spore syringe, I shook it up and couldnt see any spores.  Well, it was pointed out to me that its difficult to see them because they or basically transparent.  I dont believe everything I hear, so I didnt mess with it (F+).
(Hive Bee)
12-30-02 23:35
No 394282
      Re: ok, first u said F+ was a joke and the u...  Bookmark   

ok, first u said F+ was a joke and the u said it was one of your favorite strains?  Im slightly confused.

The part of my post that said it was a joke was a quote from someone else who posted in the thread. I was responding to that. Are you using a shitty linux browser or something and don't pick up horizontal rules?

I seen an F+ spore syringe, I shook it up and couldnt see any spores.  Well, it was pointed out to me that its difficult to see them because they or basically transparent.  I dont believe everything I hear, so I didnt mess with it (F+).

Why not try it? What have you got to lose? Clumps of spores doesn't mean too much to me. You should be able to see something in there, though. Then again most cubie strains are pretty much the same anyways.

Better loving through chemistry.
(Hive Bee)
12-31-02 14:11
No 394482
      Dark spores!  Bookmark   

You have to see spores in syringe!
12-31-02 15:05
No 394494
      "you have to see spores?"  Bookmark   

I dont guess you have to see spores inside a syringe.  Ive only seen 3 races.  Two of them I noticed tiny black speckles floating around after they were shook up.  The F+ didnt have them.

I dont know, and for some reason im feeling reluctant on wanting to find out first hand.  So, I guess Ill just keep on being a "squirrel whos trying to get a nut", so to speak.
(Hive Bee)
12-31-02 18:16
No 394528
      creeper  Bookmark   

No you dont actually have to see spores in a syringe, although if you dont see any then you probably have a very weak concentration.
I had forgotten about the the F strain being from florida, but im still quite sure that the 'creeper strain' is just a name that some vendors use to overprice b+ or GTs.
(Hive Bee)
01-01-03 17:13
No 394698
      Colored spores!  Bookmark   

Chilly could bee right, conc. is too smal, all psilocybe spores are colored, brown, black..., you should bee able to see them in syringe!
Amanitas have white spores, seeing them in water is heavy
(Hive Bee)
01-01-03 18:37
No 394715
      This thread should be at USENET Alt.DrugsMushrooms  Bookmark   

This thread really belongs to (cut&paste)

It wouldn't be the first time either that the 'bulk vs. PF TEK' discussion/flamewar is going on. So I will keep it short here.

Odin wrote [blue]PF tek method is developed for people with no propper education and equipment for shroom growing[\blue]

Not entirely true. True is that the pf tek method is so simple that it can be used by everyone who is able to make instant noodles. But Odin suggests that professionals grow in bulk amounts. Not only is that dangerously illegal, there is also no local market for it. Not too many people like shrooms (compared to booze, meth or even X). Storage of a big amount of psilocybian mushrooms for later consumption is not recommended because they will decline in quality. Slowly (if you have stored them cold&dry&dark) but still.

The PF TEK is designed for a continuous miniature cultivation project of personal amounts. The mycro tek (=pf tek without terrarium) has the extra advantage that cakes with ready-to-harvest mushrooms (cakes which still are in their containers) can be kept in the fridge for a few months (harvest the mushrooms within 48 hours after the containers have returned to roomtemperature). Fresh mushrooms are always immediately available. This can not be done so easily with bulk substrates!

(Hive Bee)
01-01-03 21:31
No 394734
      Options  Bookmark   

We can debate this subject for very long time, I would say that every method has some + and -. How many and in witch fashion are you going to grow depends on your needs.
01-02-03 19:34
No 394875
      "I agree with Yachaj"  Bookmark   

If I was to start growing it would only be for the consumption of me and my friends.  So, what would be the fastest and easiest way, and still have some quality to them, yet sacrificing quantity.  Mycro-tek I do believe.

However, Odin.  Your the man it seems when it comes to knowing how to put the quantity, and quality together.
(Hive Bee)
01-02-03 21:39
No 394910
      Decide and start  Bookmark   

Micro tek would bee one 1/2 pint jar, count on that if you do great job you will get max 30% of supstrate mass. I dont think that this is enough for you and your friends. Use PF tek method on few jars.
If you grow potent psilocybes, few jars will bee OK, but Pans, you need them more.
Quality will definetly vary, look at the post "Enhanced Psilocybin Production" by PolytheneSam.
For the beguning i suggest million times used recipe, with time you will develop yours.
Use terrarium!

PM me if you will have problems
(Hive Bee)
01-03-03 10:06
No 395073
      My favorite link for mushrooms...  Bookmark   

I belong to all the forums mentioned plus a whole bunch more and while they are all informative and have workable methods, my favorite is http://www.mycotopia.net/ .  Take a look through the archives or the fungi room.  The first page has just about every "TEK" you could think of.  The administrator there has some terrific innovations to the PF Tek and could greatly increase your yields, while keeping it simple.  All his innovations are tried by himself and other members and the results are reported.  I believe he even invented the Hippie neglect tek.  I like this site alot and it is my favorite one, next to the Hive.
01-04-03 16:51
No 395394
      check this page http://www.dsmz.de its from a...  Bookmark   

check this page http://www.dsmz.de

its from a companie in germany who sel all kinds of micro oganissems i search on there page for the F+ you where looking for and got these results http://www.dsmz.de/cgi-bin/dsmzfind.pl

greetzz ben
(Hive Bee)
01-09-03 04:30
No 396560
      Those results...  Bookmark   

I also looked at the results and they are for E.coli bacteria.  I don't think his is useful in identifying any mushrooms.  Thanks anyway!