homeslice (Stranger)
12-26-02 06:08
No 392882
      Federal Tax ID's and ordering  Bookmark   

A few different websites where i tried to make an order asked for something called an EID? Its some number the IRS gives to businesses so they can open bank accounts. If i bullshit this number on this form, can this oil distributer look this shit up? What i'm really asking is why is this distributor asking for MY federal number?
(Hive Bee)
01-08-03 06:09
No 396343
      Actually what they want is an EIN  Bookmark   

An EIN# is the fedral tax identificiation number wheras the tax number max speaks of is the state tax ID here is the differnece.  Sole propitorships and in some states Limet Liability Companies are only required to file with the state department of commerce and recieve a tax ID wich allows them to charge sales tax as well as purchase goods without the need to pay sales tax as they may be reselling them and it is against the tax codes in most states to charge sales tax twice on the same prodcute.

The number that you speak of is an EIN number or an employers identification number the EIN is a federal number given to CORPORATIONS and bussinesse and allows the coroporation to pay tax seperately from the bussiness as well as doing this it allows the corporation to withold pay from the paychecks of it's employees.  The EIN number is assigned by the federal goverment the IRS specifically, and is in all regards the social security number for the bussiness.  The supreme court has upheld the in rgards to commerce laws that a corporation whall be viewed as a entity seperate, and as such is assigned a uniquie identification code by the IRS.  This identification code is then used to open bank accounts, pay taxes, and purchase goods as an entity completely seperate from it owners. Any real bussiness that is large will be incorporated and will have atax ID.  Small companies, and individuals posing as real bussinesses will ussually not go through the necessary legal paper work ($500) and the federal filing fees ($200) in order to establish themselves as a corporation additionally there are many regulations that must be followed to maintain a corporation not the least of wich is filling quarterly taxes rather then annual taxes, as well as withholding income from paychecks and paying it into the feds.  Now in reality setting up one of these is not very difficult, however as with most things if enough time and effort is not spent to do it properly, and enough research attention put into it it can all blow up in your face with the IRS pounding at the corporate addresses door, wondering why the necessary corporate minutes from the annual board meeting were not filed -- leaving you to say, "board meeting, what board meeting." 

Best thing to do if you don't have th etime to properly set up a corporation it either one of these 3 options:
1. Hire a lawyer for $500 to file the paper work for you, and hire an accountant to for $250/yr to file the necessary paper work, with the necessary filing fees you are looking at $1000.

2.  Figure out how to do everything on your own, which will require about 60-70 hours of research for the average individual to do everything properly, and always file everything on time, and it will cost you as little as $200, if you realy put forth the effort.  If you think that you can spend 3hrs downloading the paper work for the irs and filing it, and you get youe shiny new EIN book in the mail a few weeks later, you thought wrong.  A corporation requires even more detailed book keeping and filing then an individual, and if done improperly will draw much attention.

3. Leave ordering from companies which require EIN's and corporate bank account to thos eof us who have the time, or the money to invest in doing things properly, and stick to secondary suppliers who only require TIN's or nothing at all.  Really if you don't have the time to do it right, or the money to pay someone else to do it right, you have no bussiness ordering from these companies in the first place.

Although Max's suggestion of a fake, or modified SSN will work well as a replacment TIN in some states, an EIN is a whole differnt animal, in gact the number format is even diffentand I think, it is an 11 digit number I could go and chek, but don't feel the need right now to go digging through my files, if you really need to know ask and I will provide info, but th enumber format is something like this for EIN's xx-xxxxxxxx.  The paper work for filing for an EIN from the IRS can be found at:

Form for application of an EIN#:

You will also have to fil out this form, and file it before you get an EIN:

Additionally you will need to file with you states secratry of state a notification of the formation of your corporation, these forms vary from state to sate, but most have a downloadable form available. 

Those three forms will get you an EIN, but I caution you that if you do not do your hoework, and start using the EIN without the filing the necessary tax documentation, and opening a bank account in the corporate name then you will have difficulties in the future with the IRS, and if you intend to use the corp to order questionable material the last thing you need is to draw attention to your books -- and beleive me if you have no books when the IRS comes it will draw even more attention.  Rember everytime you used that EIN it was tracked in order to comply with interstate commerce laws so they will be able to look at what you have been buying, as long as you file all the necessary paperwork then you will be able to get away with it, but of the IRS comes to you to do an audit because you din't file your quartely tax estimates, even if they were zero, or you failed to file you yearly stock transferes, even if there were none, then your books and transactins will be looked at, and unless you are a master of fake identity don't even think about doing this under assumed names, because if your physical address isn't a REALLy sure anonymous spot then you will be in even more trouble when the IRS computer gets around to verifing the stock holders you had listed on your formation paperwork.  As usual if the effort was put into forming the proper infrastructure first and secondarily the corp was used to order chemicals then you would be in the clear.  Most of us though are to eager to use our ein and get down to working to be dedicated enough to spend the time and effort to be safe -- be safe first and second work on ordering from major supplier's -- rember if they require an EIN it is because they only want to do bussiness with other corporations -- they don't even want to sell to mom and pop shops regardless of it they are a REAL and honest bussiness or not.  These are the big legues treat it as such or you'll be sent back to training camp. 

02-21-03 06:13
No 410338
      Bee careful what you do with it, but  Bookmark   

Today I applied for, paid for and received a state business license:  paying online with a visa, it cost 50$.

This is a great way to accumulate real evidence in the states case against you, me or whatever might-be criminal outhere !!!

So be carefull what you use it for

Tirds CAN fly ! they can !
02-22-03 05:55
No 410650

Although, Federal prisons are much more cleaner than a State facility.
I have a F.I.D.# its easy to get one. Just apply for a single proprietor state tax #.They give you a legitimate state # and they will tell you to use your social security.
I thought i could be tricky but they are smarter than the average bear,however they are not smarter than the average bee. The company i wanted to make an order with wanted to send me a D.E.A. form to fill out.Need i say more.
Anyway computer electronics are extremly quick,therfore a liar would be easy to catch i believe.
              yo keep us posted though

If ya think its' butter, butt its not, its ...
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
02-26-03 12:40
No 411897
      Limited liability corps  Bookmark   

LLC's are the way to go anonymous,

The end result is directly connected to the effort applied
(Hive Bee)
02-26-03 15:51
No 411938
      RE: Limited Liability Corp  Bookmark   

What is a LLC? and many other questions answered here in reference to

We're  all in this world together,