Z_Hound (Stranger)
01-09-03 20:22
No 396725
      DMT from MHRB to IM  Bookmark   

Arrogant japanese lab monkey (AJLaM) in a parallel universe
decided to abandon synthesis of DMT from Trp, due
to numerous failures.

Instead, she ordered samples of MHRB from various sources
and decided to follow A/B extraction:
[100g of MHRB powder -> HCL, pH 1.1 - three extractions, 3 days,
occasional (~1 hr) 60 C heat; filtered through cotton, then coarse glass/sand and then N1 paper filter; volume reduced to 300 mL under vacuum and ~80 C); when cooled, became cloudy - filtered through 1N filter again; removed fats with hexanes x2 times - some minor emulsions; basified with solid NaOH while monitoring pH. At pH ~6 the mixture turned grey. At pH ~11.6 became dark-red/black/a little cloudy; distinct indole smell, stopped at pH 12.1. Added 6 g of KCl;
extracted with hot hexanes x3 times - took whole day due to a lot of bubbles/emulsions which took more than 2 hrs to resolve; removed most of the hexanes with rotor at 35 C - yellow colored hexanes solution ~20 mL, some
small crystals strart to fall out at room temperature. Placed into isopropanol/dry ice - white crystalls form rapidly, in radial-snow-flake patterns, solvent less yellow.  white crystals. Crystals were collected - m.p.41- 43 C, remaining solvent was placed on a glass dish;allowed to evaporate yilding some slightly yellow crystals - m.p. 41-43]
MHRB, source 1 - 490 mg from 100 g
MHRB, source 2 - 600 mg from 100 g
MHRB, source 3 - 330 mg from 100 g

AJLaM smoked some, it was all right.
AJLaM needs a quick tip/link on how to convert it to oxalate with oxalic acid for injection
Also, AJLaM has a question, if its O.K. to prepare solution with lemon juice and inject that.

AJLaM would be more than thankful.
And even more thankful if no TFSE is mentioned:)

(Hive Addict)
01-10-03 05:33
No 396853
      To convert to the oxalate, basify to form the...  Bookmark   

To convert to the oxalate, basify to form the freebase, then acidify with oxalic acid solution.

I wouldn't inject any lemon juice solution! Yikes! distilled water and your substance of choice. I don't know what injecting a lemon juice solution would feel like, but it probably would not be good at all, sounds way too acidic.

Look in the search engine for the thread on injecting methadone from orange juice. Sort of reminds me of that.
(Chief Bee)
01-10-03 07:07
No 396870
      Don't shoot lemons  Bookmark   

Being a natural product, lemon juice may contain all sorts of stuff, including allergens and xenobiotics. Do not inject!
01-10-03 12:11
No 396913
      Please do not inject oxalates!!!  Bookmark   

Please do not inject oxalates!!! That'll do you harm!
(Pioneer Researcher)
01-10-03 13:57
No 396930
      60 C and HCl with pH at 1.1  Bookmark   

Is not possible that theating all the plant powder at 60 C with such acid concentration can destroy or inititate side reactions that could minimize the yield ? Would it be more safe to do the extraction with plain methanol or methanol and a pH slightly acid ?
01-10-03 17:15
No 396965
      What s wrong with oxalates?  Bookmark   

I thought they use this salt when they inject mice with dmt or 5-meo-DMT.

Any Possession is a Demonic Possession!
(Hive Addict)
01-10-03 17:48
No 396971
      That's a mouse- not a human  Bookmark   

Oxalic acid and most oxalates are very poisonous to humans.  the very reason rhubarb pies require close attention to the removal of the leaves from the stalk.  the leaves have oxalic acid and salts running around that cause the leaves to be poisonous.  next time you see a bottle of an oxalate, bet there will be a poison symbol or warning on it.
(Chief Bee)
01-10-03 17:59
No 396974
      oxalates  Bookmark   

Humans are sensitive to oxalic acid. If too much is ingested, crystals of insoluble calcium oxalate may precipitate inside the kidneys, creating kidney stones, or inside the synovial fluid in your joints, both very painful.
01-10-03 22:50
No 397029
      Then ascorbate it was  Bookmark   

Thank you, never thought oxalates could be poisonous.

AJLaM injected it in ascorbic solution. It worked,
though somewhat painful.

endosymbiotic crystals...
(Hive Bee)
02-06-03 17:53
No 405132
      ascorbate, tartarate, citrate...  Bookmark   

anyone have opinions about which organic acid (don't say fumarate, where you get that otc?) is best for injection.

SWF thought that seeing as dmt has molar weight of 188 and ascorbic acid at about 198 (damn she could be wrong on those molar weights, or I may have recalled them incorrectly) should work okay. SWF thinks that ascorbic acid would be the best available counter-ion for dmt if one were to produce dry crystals. SWF has personally IV'ed just plain tartaric acid and though a little burny was not painful. (yes SWF is was a bit mad at one stage).

If SWF were to get adequate amounts of DMT and equimolar amounts of ascorbic acid, would that work for injection? What about instead using HCl? As far as it goes, so long as one gets the pH close to 6.5-7, it should be relatively painless (as far as IV goes) for injection?

mr Z, my fellow freak of recent contact, was it just a slight burning or something quite unpleasant? Didst thou give proper time for bases to uptake to h2o solution? didst thou make thine solution bio-neutral (6.5ish)?

For those who don't know, tartaric acid is the acid found in unripe grapes. I have heard it is hard to find in some places, but it is an excellent additive to make tarts tarter. In fact the stuff on teeth - tartar - is largely composed of tartaric acid. (so if you have tartar it's probably from eating slightly unripe grapes more than sugar - sugar just causes cavities)

I know naaaathing.
(Hive Bee)
02-26-03 05:27
No 411782
      ascorbate and tartrate  Bookmark   

Okay, after looking at the info, SWIM decided that ascorbates might be too vulnerable to breakdown from oxygen/heat. He has discovered that making the base water soluble with ascorbate worked IM, though didn't dose high enough to get strong effect (nice and giggly for about half an hour). Acetate salts were ineffective IM, but this may be the result of excess acetate. Acetate salts would probably be a pain in the butt though, being hygroscopic.

For stability purposes, tartaric acid seemed to be the most readily available and suitable acid. It has turned out to enable quite rapid crystallisation of dmt salts, pretty thanks to the optical activity of the tartrate too. 3 bioassays of tartrate salts have shown definite activity in IV usage. IM testing has not been done yet. Fortunately SWIM acquired mr strassman's book so he's got a better idea of what a strong IV dose is (.4-.5mg/kg) which means when he works out how much of the tartrate makes a strong dose, he will have a better idea of how much would be required for an IM dose (approximately 1mg/kg for IM dosing). in other words about a bit over twice to get proper IM dosing.

Pictures of decently sized dmt tartrate crystals will be made available soon.

I know naaaathing.