oio (HyperLab Bee)
01-29-03 17:27
No 402359
      solubility of ergots  Bookmark   

Hi!
I'm looking for solubility of ergots. The is no clear info. Same info is quite differ in other source.
All my knowledge is:
1. base
good - acetone, CHCl3, CH2Cl2, CCl4, DMFA, EtOH, MeOH
? - hexane, EtAc, BuAc, C6H6, Et2O, water, AcOH
2. tartrate
good - water
? - EtOH, MeOH, AcOH, DMFA

It's a great problem to isolate ergots correctly.
Great Thanks.
 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Hive Bee)
02-02-03 14:51
No 403589
      What you probably mean is the solubility of...  Bookmark   

What you probably mean is the solubility of ergolene derivatives?

Peptide alkaloids from Claviceps purpurea, like ergotamine, are typically extracted with chloroform, and are very soluble in solvents like this.

"Water soluble" lysergic acid amides, like those from morning glories and Claviceps paspali are also first extracted with chloroform or similar, but using much larger volumes than for the peptide alkaloids.

So it depends on the nature of the alkaloids which way to extract.

After extraction, extract the chloroform with for example aqueous tartaric or maleic acid, or even dilute hydrochloric acid.

There is a good example for extracting Claviceps paspali culture in Patent US3038840 ("Process for the production of alkaloid derivatives of lysergic acid"), beginning in column 4, line 10.
 
 
 
 
    oio
(HyperLab Bee)
02-06-03 18:02
No 405137
      Thanks for reply  Bookmark   

Sorry for slang. Of course Ive mean ergolene derivatives.
All patents are using native products, but my problem is to get subj from mix of ergometrine, caffeine, atropine, barbiturate, dextrin
So, all of useful solvents are unusable. But there is no clear info about.frown
So...
 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Hive Bee)
02-08-03 13:25
No 405589
      Fan-fucking-tastic!  Bookmark   

A thousand thanks, dear Sir. Extract with active charcoal, why don't we just? But of course!

I think you're right about the amides. It is generally mentioned, at least in the reviews I have read on the subject, that lysergic acid is never found in ergot culture. So I suppose Sandoz was fiddling with some new strain producing lysergic acid directly, or, as you suggest, they were hydrolyzing the entire culture broth before doing their charcoal thing.

But who knows it this will work with amides? I think it's worth a try, potentially saving a lot of solvent.

About dichloroethane or chloroform? I'd say chloroform, just because it is less soluble in the water, so you'll lose less. I don't think it makes much difference, though, because if you just extract the water enough times, you'll eventually get all the amides no matter what because they are less soluble in the water, and even if they weren't it wouldn't matter.
 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Hive Bee)
02-08-03 13:34
No 405590
      Would those adulterants even make much of a...  Bookmark   

Oio, would those adulterants even make much of a difference? I know that dextrin is nasty, though.

editedit: Basically, you shouldn't have any problems. Just find out the form of the drugs in the mixture (i.e., whether salts or free bases), and just devise a succession of extractions based on your knowledge of the solubility of these compounds. Barbiturates are not very soluble in water, but their salts are. So to separate a mixture of, say, phenobarbitone and ergometrine maleate, just extract with water, in which the former is quite insoluble and the latter is very soluble. Hey presto.
 
 
 
 
    oio
(HyperLab Bee)
02-10-03 13:03
No 406169
      To be continued  Bookmark   

The most problem not dextrine or barbiturates, but caffeine and atropine. They have a same solubility. It's impossible to make hydrolysis well if they are together.
 
 
 
 
    bottleneck
(Hive Bee)
02-10-03 14:30
No 406190
      My point was, why not first get rid of one...  Bookmark   

My point was, why not first get rid of one thing, then another, and so on?

But anyway, I don't think they would hurt the process of hydrolysis. The process might actually be an efficient way of destroying the atropine.
 
 
 
 
    bbell
03-20-03 04:16
      chloroform prices
(Rated as: wrong forum)
 Bookmark   
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
05-08-03 10:15
No 432078
      Percentages in chemistry are always weight /...  Bookmark   

Percentages in chemistry are always weight / weight percentages (a.k.a "% (w/w)") if not stated otherwise. When it says methanol it probably means methanol crazy, i.e. completely anhydrous 10% (w/w) gaseous NH3 dissolved in methanol.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
05-08-03 18:06
No 432172
      :-) so then...  Bookmark   

smile so then...