urushibara (Hive Bee)
02-06-03 17:21
No 405122
      dmt, acacia bark, and turps  Bookmark   

I have recently had this nutty idea that perhaps it would make sense to extract alkaloids from acacia maidenii in the first phase by using mineral turpentine.

Now, to clarify this, I have been told that another bee here has asserted that alkaloids are (especially in the case of dmt) usually in the base form in the plant. Another collegue of lesser (however his educational qualifications put him above myself) qualifications, has asserted that a distilled naptha extract of mimosa hostilis, then combined with acetic acid, seemed to cause a significant apparent reaction and resultant migration of alkaloids across phases.

Okay, so therefore, only non-polar soluble materials would then get out of the bark, and into the solvent? SWF has examined the polar and non-polar phases of an simple 'methylated spirits' probably quite hydrated, extract of acacia maidenii, and in the resultant extraction, a moderate amount of an orangish substance resulted in the polar (dh20) phase, which appeared to have no psychoactivity at all, from experiment with direct infusion into the blood. The materials that came from the polar phase, after acid extraction and then basification, seemed to have *some* psychoactive effects from vapourisation, SWF concluded that from the bark, the alcohol extract yielded nothing of interest in the polar phase, and something to be interested in from the non-polar phase.

Now, knowing that the 'turpentine' thing, can be a varying mixture of chemicals, it is, as far as I can tell, largely a mix of high bp linear hydrocarbons and various aromatics with equally high bp's - 145 to 160 is about the figures I have seen - I wonder if this could be a viable chemical to use to extract the alkaloids from the raw, dry bark. I have read that mineral turpentine, with it's relatively high concentration of aromatic non-polar solvents, would be quite effective at extracting alkaloids from acacia bark.

So, therefore, I have begun to suspect that a dry powdered or pulverised quantity of acacia maidenii bark, would readily yield the alkaloids into turpentine.

Now, so that I can get this clear, would it help to wash the turpentine with DH2O and then dry with MgSO4, before using on the dry bark? And if so, is turpentine an appropriate solvent to use?

From what SWF saw of an alcohol extract of the bark, there is a lot of resin, it would probably be appropriate to compare it to glue (and acacia nilotica certainly contains a lot of good water-soluble gluey stuff) Would turpentine, considering it's affinity for non-polar materials, and it's strong ability (due to aromatic components) to dissolve non-polar soubstances, be adequately specific in isolating the majority desirable materials found in acacia bark?

I anticipate that a significant amount of the gummy gluey stuff would still be pulled out, but another local collegue has said that low pH can help reduce the crap that can come across out of the bark - therefore, a technique I have developed (in theory at this point, and hence forth until the local laws change... this is for my friend the SWF) about extracting alkaloids from acacia maidenii bark (which is freely available all over south-east and central queensland, and infrequently extracted in these regions) could be performed by the following general procedure:

- take dry, pulverised/powdered bark, soak (and possibly gently heat) in (washed and dried) mineral turpentine over a period of days, possibly two or three.

- after filtering the acacia bark bits out using filters and settling (if high grade filters are unavailable - which is unlikely and btw is worth doing, those filters are fantastic), collect the alkaloids using straight distilled white vinegar, using moderate agitation and possibly gentle heating, and then separate the fractions.

- using the selectivity of dichloromethane to DMT acetate, extract into DCM out of vinegar solution, gently agitate and collect three passes, DCM phase separated from vinegar phase. (I understand that most oils, waxes and fats do not dissolve well in low pH acids such as unadulterated white vinegar, and likewise waxes do not do well in chlorinated solvents)

- subsequent to this, the DCM is distilled off, and the resultant dry dmt acetate is basified using sodium bicarbonate and washed after some period of time, resulting in pure freebase DMT (hopefully - I presume the reaction involves the Na ions taking up the acetate and the carbonate evolving as carbon dioxide - I take this technique from 'crack' basing cocaine and homebake heroin)

okay, so, my idea is that this technique, in combination with a final evaporation/distillation in DCM in a very cold environment (freezer) would result in relatively pure and large crystals of DMT. I understand that this particular species of tree also contains NMT - would anyone be able to speculate as to whether dmt acetate and nmt acetate, which would be in the acetic acid extraction, would be different in regards to their solubility in DCM?

My understanding, regardless of this, is that a slower and more complete (and large) crystallisation of a relatively pure DMT freebase alkaloid would be more durable than the relatively impure and less complete crystallisation of the combination of the two.

Hopefully I haven't lost anyone here... (ha!) SWF has abandoned her mission of discovering a relatively accessible means of synthing DMT, thus has returned to local materials and low-cost chemicals in order to find a way to make use of the seemingly ample supply of wattles in the local area, within an hour's walk of her home.

Thanks for any help on the different bits of my SWF's theory, feebly as I have reported them...

I know naaaathing.