urushibara (Hive Bee)
03-17-03 15:33
No 418195
      DMT HCl - smokable perhaps?  Bookmark   

As bees would know, I am very interested in the subject of dmt salts wink

Here's a bit of a quote from TIHKaL which I presume is quoted from one of Manske's writeups:


The resulting crystals were recrystallized from benzene/methanol to give N,N-dimethyltryptamine hydrochloride with a mp of 165-167 C.




If DMT HCl melts at that temperature, then surely it's boiling point couldn't be that high, probably lower than meth. Meth HCl's MP is 170-175, and I'm fairly sure I have read somewhere that it boils at around 190.

This is likely to be similar to the MP/BP relationship of DMT HCl. the HCl may not crystallise particularly well, but even if it only dries to a course powder, there are some interesting potential applications for it, not the least of which is that it could be smoked as well as snuffed and injected (of which IM would be the most useful).

Snuffing of DMT has not been well studied. One claim has been made for snuffing freebase, but that sounds extremely painful.

As a salt it would be easier to handle than the freebase, which can be extremely annoying to try and weigh, not to mention how harsh it is to smoke. Being a neutralised salt, but still smokable it will probably be a little less harsh too. Tobacco smoke, after all, contains elements that are in excess of 200 degrees, likewise cannabis smoke. And the former's alklaoid content is most likely a salt in vivo as well.


It means buckle your seatbelts dorothy, because kansas ... is going bye bye
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
03-17-03 15:46
No 418198
      DMT bp  Bookmark   

The boiling point of freebase DMT is ~300C at atmospheric pressure, and the 190C figure for meth is for the freebase.

Amine hydrochlorides does not have a boiling point, as they decompose way before reaching any such temperature (partly to the freebase, which then can boil if heated enough).

DMT freebase is not annoying to weigh, as it is a solid.
 
 
 
 
    urushibara
(Hive Bee)
03-17-03 16:44
No 418224
      From merck via erowid: "mp 46 (fleming,...
(Rated as: UTFSE!!!)
 Bookmark   

From merck via erowid:

"mp 46 (fleming, woolias). bp 60-80. pKa 8.68 (ethanol-water)"

this concurs with my experience of the freebase, it softens quite readily at body temperature and liquifies at least as low as 50C.

I would like to know where you got that 300 figure from. I have been unable to find any empirical data about dmt hcl's boiling point. seems to me that nobody measured it. frown

it does eventually solidify out of solvents, but it can take a damn long time. MeOH and DCM seem to be the best at doing this before christmas from what I read.

"Amine hydrochlorides does not have a boiling point, as they decompose way before reaching any such temperature (partly to the freebase, which then can boil if heated enough)."

Presumably once it reaches that decomposition point the freebase boils out very rapdily, since the temperature involved is well above the bp of the freebase.

the transformation must be efficient enough to be practical otherwise how would all these methheads be smoking. meth freebase is even more annoying, it is the HCl salt that people smoke afaik.

It would be very useful to explore dmt's physical properties more. Everyone seems to tip-toe around the subject like it's like reactive uranium or something. "nobody wants to know" they tell me. how can people know they don't want to know when they don't know what they're not knowing? It seems especially odd when dmt itself seems to evoke a vast unknown when ingested.

It means buckle your seatbelts dorothy, because kansas ... is going bye bye