wacko_reaco (Hive Bee)
04-29-03 11:29
No 430169
      mdma.ascorbate and mdma.citrate  Bookmark   

Has anyone any experience with these salts. The reason i am interested is that a possible step can be deleted (the gassing-so boring and filtering-tedious) from my mothers synths.
Screech at mom if shes nuts but could the freebase be ground up wth a slight excess of either ascorbic acid or citric acid to form the salt over time, surely these acids would have sparingly solubility in the freebase, and therefore provided enough work was perfomed on the system (grinding, mixing, agitation whatever), the salt would form????? This is pure speculation.
The other option she has is dehydrating a solution under full vacuum until all the water is driven off, or would this never work for the 1kg salt in 2kg water she was hoping to dry???

wacka wacka wacka
(Hive Bee)
04-29-03 17:12
No 430203
      maybe tartrate?  Bookmark   

ok, yes, mixing the base with the acid would certainly make salts.

I don't recall whether this applies to mdma, but certainly with meth the excess acid can be removed by acetone crashing, which is much simpler than gassing.

anyway, citric and ascorbic acids, particularly the latter, are not the most stable organic acids. ascorbic acid is light, heat and air sensitive and degrades quite easily, citric acid is less unstable, but it could be better.

tartaric acid is commonly used as a counterion for many alkaloids. It is very stable for an organic acid, and very soluble in water in comparison the the other two.

don't grind them together dry, just mix up a proper molar ratio into some dH2O and shake vigourously with the base as is in the extraction solvent, separate and evaporate the water.

The proper molar ratio will be 1:1 for ascorbic and citric acids, and 2:1 for tartaric acid. Tartaric acid is a dihydroxy diacid and is twice as acidic as most other organic acids (which are largely mono-acids).

you can't keep peace with a gun
(Hive Addict)
04-30-03 23:11
No 430463
      Ascorbic and Citrics?  Bookmark   

I was under the impression these two were the same?  isomers? enantiomers?  (don't remember the structure for either)
05-01-03 16:48
No 430604
      Ascorbic and Citrics?  Bookmark   

Ascorbic Acid is Vitamin C. Citric Acid is found in citrus fruits, which are common sources of Vitamin C, but they are different compounds. Citrate is used in mammals as a Kreb's cycle intermediae, formula CO2CH2C(OHCO2)CH2CO2, and ascorbic acid has a furanolactone ring in it I think, and does other usefull stuff like fight scurvey and help your bones and teeth grow