Jaded (Stranger)
05-14-03 13:18
No 433170
      Unknown Tryptamine?     

***I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT IS DONE BECAUSE OF THIS POSE.  IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE THEN PLEASE REFRAIN YOURSELF FROM READING THIS POST.***



Uh I've recently found out about a Tryptamine drug found in a certain common species of mushroom that isnt really a good drug to use.  My questions are is there anyway that a test can be done to find out the chemical make up of this drug?  I know the drug is a tryptamine for sure because I've had expierences of both psilocybin and DMT.  And I've exprienced these 'shrooms' and they were much like that of psilocybin but VERY MUCH diffrent in a way.  See, the visuals were alot alike, but there comes with them an auditory effect(s) that are quite disturbing.  The visual diffrences would be noted that u can see these 'things' that are clear and are almost like they are 'holes in ur eye ball'.  You usually only see them at times when its bright or if your outside.  They are extremely odd.  And also there is what i would call not being able to control ones thoughts and u find urself mumbling to yourself in your head at times.  But only sometimes, it seems that you have to take control of yourself to rid that from happening.  I've came to the conclusion that these 'shrooms' mimic that of schizphrenia more than that of ANY drug.  I first took an eigth bought from someone 4 years ago, and I've never been the same since.  Although, at the time when I had consumed them I didn't know I would be like this for years, I thought that it would go away after several weeks.  Also I know of the ver specie(s) of shrooms that contain such drug and they are noted as being edible! and maybe my continued drug use continues these effects(even my antipsychotic medication?![marijuana) I've also found out that these shrooms grow throughout the entire world.  And some don't always cause the same effects as in the wouldnt do anything at all because they were simply look-alike edibles that were noted by mycologists.
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
05-14-03 13:21
No 433171
      Tough task     

If you have to ask how, then you are not capable of analyzing the mushrooms yourself. Usual procedures include GC/MS analysis, as well as NMR - both very expensive lab machines.
 
 
 
 
    Blind_Angel
(Stranger)
05-14-03 13:21
No 433172
      If you would have a description of the ...     

If you would have a description of the mushrooms or a name it would help?
I would guess Amanita Muscaria, but the effect are really not like the one you describe but they do grow everywhere in the world...

/}/_//\//) /-|/\///=/_
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 13:26
No 433174
      species of Coprinus. If you look those up on...     

species of Coprinus.  If you look those up on the net, the species that I know that contains tryptamines, has 3 or 4 other look-alikes which im not sure if they contain anything or not.  I haven't ever been to a cowfield in the summer months but I know for sure they can be found there.  No the shrooms were not AMANITA.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 13:30
No 433175
      I was basically asking if someone would like...     

I was basically asking if someone would like to do this for me for my own health?
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
05-14-03 13:32
No 433176
      No, we don't allow the exchange of substances...     

No, we don't allow the exchange of substances between members, so that won't happen.
 
 
 
 
    GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
05-14-03 13:43
No 433177
      coprinus     

Coprinus mushrooms have an Antabuse-like effect. So it only gives an intoxication if you eat the mushrooms in combination with alcohol. And furthermore, not everybody is susceptable to the active components. I doubt that inky caps contain alluring tryptamines. I suggest you recheck your shrooms.

The faster you run, the quicker you die.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 13:44
No 433178
      What about IF someone were to collect some of...     

What about IF someone were to collect some of these 'shrooms' and run tests on them.  Of course thought I would give information on the shroom for identification.  But it would make sense to me if someone didn't want to intrude into a cow field heh.
 
 
 
 
    GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
05-14-03 13:50
No 433180
      extractions     

You make extractions and run TLCs.

Or if you have the equipment (but I doubt you have), you can check your extracts with HPLC or GC, but preferably GC/MS. NMR should be useful when you think of encountering "unknown" substances. And if you have plenty of time, IR can come in handy as well.

A standard phytochemistry work on how to study plants easily contains 2000+ pages. I suggest you look for a damn good library near you and start reading. The literature is full of procedures on how to extract which plant using a specific technique, usually including spot test and TLCs.

The faster you run, the quicker you die.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 13:52
No 433183
      Oh I am positive of this.     

Oh I am positive of this.  They DEFINETLY contain tryptamines of unknown kind.  See for yourself if you would like.  I'm not telling you to consume them because I'm so sure im RIGHT of this that I am paranoid as to someone consuming them because of this post.  Or why would I have stated a disclaimer.  I'm telling if you would like to know for sure or help me out,  you should run tests on them.  BUT DO NOT CONSUME THEM BECAUSE THEY CAUSE SYMPTOMS LIKE THAT OF SCHIZOPHRENIA WITH VERY DISTURBING AUDITORY EFFECTS.  Oh and be sure to let me know what you find out via-email.  But for some reason what will happen is you wont be able to find out the chemical found in the 'shrooms' because they are of unkown compounds.  But certain large 'yellow' species of this shroom do for sure contain TRYPTAMINE compounds.(red,green,gold color kaleidoscopic patterning.  Though a few other features of these shrooms make them diffrent from psilocybe's)
 
 
 
 
    yellium
(I'm Yust a Typo)
05-14-03 13:52
No 433184
      I would also like it IF somebody brought me...     

I would also like it IF somebody brought me some nice chicks. Of course, I would give them some information on how they could recognize nice chicks. Just for identification purposes, nothing illegal here.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
05-14-03 14:01
No 433185
      Why don't you give us a good description of...     

Why don't you give us a good description of those mushrooms so we could identify them. Maybe somebody has already checked that species.
 
 
 
 
    GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
05-14-03 14:02
No 433186
      ?     

How much education (school or self-study) in the mycological field do you have to be sure you are talking about inky caps?

The faster you run, the quicker you die.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 14:15
No 433189
      Description = Yellow Cap, White stem.     

Description = Yellow Cap, White stem.

I have no mycology education although my friend does ;)

:::heres a link:::         
http://www.grzyby.pl/coprinus-site-Kees-Uljee/species/pellucid.htm
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 14:18
No 433190
      Put it this way...just pick any yellow shrooms     

Put it this way...just pick any yellow shrooms that have a white stem and look similiar to that...and you'll end up with tryptamine containing shrooms.  Do no eat them though, unless you want to be tripping for a LONG time.
 
 
 
 
    Lilienthal
(Moderator)
05-14-03 14:36
No 433193
      There are probably thousands of mushrooms...     

There are probably thousands of mushrooms matching your "description". It looks like the mushroom you linked to grows exclusively in Europe.

So please take the time to inspect the dried specimens, maybe check the spores under a microscope, give us the habitat and the time you collected them... Or ask your friend to help you. There is a free downloadable identification program on the site you gave us.

Otherwise people here might think it's a hoax...
 
 
 
 
    sean1234
(Hive Bee)
05-14-03 14:52
No 433196
      Put it this way...just pick any yellow shrooms     

Put it this way...just pick any yellow shrooms that have a white stem and look similiar to that...and you'll end up with tryptamine containing shrooms.  Do no eat them though, unless you want to be tripping for a LONG time.

lillienthal is absolutely right... you need to get yourself a good library book on mushroom identification. You should know that id'ing mushrooms is not an easy task, and many species, while very different from one another look almost identical. this is a skill that is learned after lots of experience. never attempt to consume any mushroom without having first taking spore prints and doing several cross references with detailed mushroom id books.

also, due to the fact that psychadelic experiences are heavily influenced by environment and are volitile by nature, i would not assume that you have found a 'new tryptamine' or 'new anything' for that matter.
ask your question here www.shroomery.com.

never ever eat shrooms from the wild unless you are well educated in the business...the complexity is staggering, not simple in the least.
 
 
 
 
    hCiLdOdUeDn
(Hive Addict)
05-14-03 14:55
No 433198
      About picking...     

Not every mushroom that has a yellow stem is a tryptamine containing mushroom! You could be eating poisonous mushrooms. My suggestion: Dont fucking pick mushrooms from your backyard. If you want to ingest psilocybin then cultivate mushrooms of the P.Cubensis variety by buying REAL spores. You never know what you ate, it might have contained some kind of delerient such as the pyschoactive aminitas mushrooms.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
05-14-03 15:12
No 433202
      ok     

Okay...What I say is of true fact and yes barely anyone in this world knows about this infact by the way some poeple have replied to this i would say NO ONE knows.  But anyway, I was right about what I said. Go to a cow field and pick shrooms that are large, and look YELLOW, and have a solid white stem.  Thats all there is to that for you people that are wanting to test this out,  its not like your going to eat them so who gives a fuck if you think that im wrong when im right you have nothing to lose.  Oh and I have expirence with what I have just told you.  The only possible look-alikes and im sure of this is diffrent strains that are pretty much the same shroom with only microscopic diffrences.  The only thing that would happen if you picked a shroom that was microscopically diffrent, is that it MIGHT be edible other than active.  But its that simple...yellow cap, white stem, oh yea and a purple-black spre print THATS IT IM TELLING YOU LOL!  You will see yourself if you went to a field...but chances are why you don't get me is you've never even been in a cow pasture.
 
 
 
 
    moo
(Hive Bee)
05-14-03 18:39
No 433234
      Advice     

The more you eat different mushrooms of unidentified species, the more likely you are going to die of a poisoning. Are you sure you really know are they different to those you found last time? Or in other words: are you, again, going to find out what their effects are the riskiest way? Or is someone else doing it because of your recommendation? One can't be sure of it the next day either. In some cases the game is already over when you realize that something is terribly wrong, which might well take a week, so please be sensible.

Get a good book on mushrooms and start spotting and collecting them, no matter where. Now, start to pratice identification with them, no matter what kinds of mushrooms they are. That is the only way to learn it properly. Many mushrooms also make a good dinner when you KNOW what they are. wink

Edit: also, when you talk about cow pastures... where exactly? America or Europe and which parts of it? Where in the pasture, and where exactly? growing in cow shit or somewhere else? No, it isn't as simple as you may think.
 
 
 
 
    ClearLight
(Hive Addict)
05-15-03 13:13
No 433396
      AKKK! Moron Mushroom Munchers!     

To prevent your inadvertant deletion from the Gene Pool, I suggest the following.

  UTSFE on my username and read everything about TLC including the section on using the modified van-urk/salwoski reagents for identifying tryptamines. Over 150 tryptamines can be discriminated in that journal ref i posted.

  Get a GOOD 1200x microscope and learn how to do spore identification.  That is the ONLY reliable method for mushroom id.  Once you have the spore id'd.. (size, shape, color)  then you can compare it against the macroscopic properties of your fungus.

  The tlc gear you can ghetto up for about $10.00.  The reagents can be purchased from chem supply spots or auctions..

  Really no reason for gambling here.. you can easily use SCIENCE to find out the TRUTH!

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
05-18-03 01:16
No 433876
      This sounds like Anxiety in disguise to me     

This sounds like Anxiety in disguise to me
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
10-01-03 11:39
No 462111
      <- 1st to know     

Also again im not responsible for your mistakes eating these I JUST HAD A POST SAY THATS IMPOSSIBLE SO DONT ACT LIKE U KNEW ALL ALONG THATS NUTS
these grow on cow dirt...***but some supposebly are diffrent but i dont think they r so thats why i said the 1st description cauze its much easier and the spore print can be white, purple, or black.
 
 
 
 
    Vitus_Verdegast
(Hive Bee)
10-02-03 18:02
No 462338
      Hmm...     

You know what?
Send some samples of your mushroom to Jochen Gartz.

While you are in the cow pastures:
For psilocybe semilanceata (for all you temp climate people wink):

I. Go buy a mushroom field manual before picking.

II. P. semilanceata is easily recognized, common in cow pastures, does *not* grow directly on cow shit, It is brown in appearance when wet, yellowish when dry from sun, and have always purpleblack sporeprints.

III. Don't eat any mushrooms if you are not 100% sure of their identity. The class know as 'little brown mushrooms' (LBM's) is gigantic and *a lot* of them grow in cow pastures.

A Dream Within A Dream (http://www.poedecoder.com/Qrisse/works/dreamw.html)
 
 
 
 
    dennis_pro
(HyperLab Bee)
10-03-03 00:05
No 462360
      what is 'aeruginascin'     

I've readed article (http://www.eleusis.ws/en/articles/vel-gartzinocybe.shtml) about psychoactive mushroom Inocybe Aeruginascens: "It shoul be noted that results from the analysis of the mushrooms indicated the presence of a previously unknown alkaloid, which was named aeruginascin (Gartz, 1987, 1989). The structure of aeruginascin must be very similar to those of baeocystin and psilocybin and the levels of concentration of aeruginascin found in the mushrooms are comparable to those of psilocybin and baeocystin (Gartz, 1989)."

Anybody knows anything about this alkaloid? Structure? Properties?

With best regards,
Dennis Prochko aka Wolf
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
10-03-03 06:36
No 462384
      The structure of aeruginascin is still unknown     

The structure is unknown: http://excerpts.thedrugsindex.org/thedrugsindex/psychedelic_library/Jochen_Gartz/gartz3.htm

Shulgin doesn't know either, but he'll try to find out: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adso_current.htm
 
 
 
 
    plasmaxs
(Stranger)
10-08-03 13:22
No 463405
      antipsychotic medication?     

jaded do you say your antipsychotic medication is marijuana?
if so
This would not be my medication of choice people with mental dissorders including underlying ones which may not have been noticed yet more often worsons the problem/s. iam one of these people trust me, get some help from someone who can perscribe drugs then u might get a real antipsychotic like rispeidone.    
on the mushroom case the mushroom which could be a posserbilerty is Inocybe corydalina var. erinaceomorpha pic at http://www.mushroomjohn.com/species12a.htm
there are a few other Inocybe's at the site
allthough like someone said spore identification  is the onley real way of finding out.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
(Stranger)
11-13-03 05:08
No 470643
      http://www.grzyby.pl/coprinus-site-Kees-Uljee/s...     

http://www.grzyby.pl/coprinus-site-Kees-Uljee/species/pellucid.htm

To be sure to get the right kind use this link because the gill color and size can be diffrent. I had posted this link b4 and im not a mycologist so i dont know discripts only the dried out shrooms he had =)

And i was only posting the description so someone could run tests WITHOUT eating them that was the idea of the post.
 
 
 
 
    Jaded
11-30-03 23:04
      yo
(Rated as: ALL CAPS)
    
 
 
 
    Psi_Locybe
(Hive Bee)
01-20-04 00:37
No 483500
      This is not a particularly meaningful subject lin.     

>***I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT IS DONE BECAUSE
>OF THIS POSE.  IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE THEN PLEASE REFRAIN
>YOURSELF FROM READING THIS POST.***

Oh, trust me dawg - it's far, FAR more likely that something horrific will come of someone being foolish enough to believe the crap in my post, than someone being foolish enough to believe the crap in your post.

I disavow all responsibility for your actions.

>My questions are is there anyway that a test can be done
>to find out the chemical make up of this drug?

 "A" test?  ***"A"*** test?

 The fact that you know even less about ghetto analytical chemistry than, yes, even I, fills me with a fear and dread unparalleled since the time my friend slit my throat, and I was grilling, dead, as God bitched me out for being a freakin' hippie.

Again, do I reiterate my disclaimer.  No, there is unfortunately not "a test which will tell you the chemical makeup."  There are a few techniques which will allow you to say "it is itself, and these are its properties."  If it was a simple hydrocarbon, I'd say brominate the fucking thing and count carbon.  You can probably still do that with it's pieces, once you blast a chunk to smithereens on the molecular level, and isolate "smithereens" from breakdown - i.e. "one compound believed to be a formerly-indolic clump" in one vial, "ethane" over here...

...it still won't tell you NEARLY as much as if it were just a nice, simple hydrocarbon which DIDN'T have, say, a tendancy to blast itself apart under most conditions of substitution, or, say, an amine which likes to halogenate more than it reasonably should, or...

...sorry, I'm rambling.

-------------------------------------------
Starting point :

...get your ass about 1/2 ton of these shrooms, and a giant freaking boiler.  I am, quite literally, not shitting you.  Mind you, this is probably felonious as fuck.

Step 2 :

Base out the alkaloids.  Dose yourself.  Still the same issues?  Are you *sure* it's not just psychosomatic - trips can do that, y'know?  If you *still* want to proceed...

Step 3:

 Take a few pounds of yon alkaloids.  Bust a little column chromatography under the blacklight. 

"I know the drug is a tryptamine..."

Are you sure...?

POSITIVE???

Counterexample - sodium 2acetoxybenzoate is an a2 norepinephrine antagonist.  As such, it is theoretically quite feasible that Na2AOB could *drastically* change an existing tryptamine-based experience, via the increased noradrenaline release, resulting in a potentially-negative, more potent tryptaminoid hallucinogenic experience.

I say this only because (a) I'm a fucking idiot, and (b) you appear to know even less than I do - 2acetoxybenzoic acid isn't a tryptamine, it's asprin.

...but... *IF* you still think you're sure...

...store the different glowing bands in different bottles, naturally, as you engage in a little column chromatography.  *IF* you're right about the matter being tryptaminic, it is now in *one* of those bottles.

Step 4 :

Eat each bottle, one at a time.  Note variances in nuance.  Also, please be sane enough not to eat the whole bottle at once - this is for two reasons...

a) People munchin' the base of a full-fledged 2000 lbs of shrooms make very, very poor chemists for quite some time, and...

b) You need to save some for analysis.

...also, have your friends run double-blinds on your bioassay.

Step 5 :

Look up "boiling point constant h2o" on either TFSE or AFSE.  This should tell you exactly how to determine the mol. wt. of your substance.  *IF* you are correct, and it's a simple tryptamine, THIS WILL MAKE "WHAT-THE-FUCK-IT-IS" **SO** much easier to figure out.  If it's "not quite a mild variance" - i.e., 'truly unknown compound,' then you will know that compound X has a mol. wt. of 'n', by tautology.

Step 6 :

"I know the drug is a tryptamine..."

Heh - still sure?

Well...

...in that case, run the Keller.  If I named the wrong test, I'm sure someone will correct me.  In fact, since I haven't read the whole thread, I'm sure someone has.  Note the color for posterity...

Step 7 :

...you should have already tested the mp of the base, HCl, acetate, and any other acids you can get your hands on by now... record them *well* - as you record all other data.

Step 8 :

Check the literature - has anyone recorded anything with an identical crystalline structure (HCl, C2O2H4, CO2H2, etc), mp (HCl, C2O2H4, CO2H2, base, etc), reaction to the Keller test, mol. wt., etc, etc...

...if so, you *might* know what it is.  Maybe.  One never can be QUITE sure...

If not, you have "Compound X, mol wt n, mp (salt 1) (salt 2) (etc) bp (salt 1) (salt 2) (etc) notes : Keller test ___, flourescence noted under UV, and maybe some other notes."

This is enough for you to name a theoretically-completely-new-compound, earning your place in the annals of science for ages innumerable.  It also gives you a JadedMerk ref for your theoretically-completely-new-compound.

...and if you're really, REALLY bright, you can think up potentially valid structures based on the theorized nucleus and the mol. wt. and test them based on the properties; methoxybenzene and parahydroxymethylbenzene, for instance, have a different reaction to MeI.

Have fun.  Welcome to science, kid... and above all, don't listen to this idiot - yeah, the one typing the post, find someone who knows what they're doing...

Rev. Psi Locybe, insane alchemist.