Argon (Stranger)
05-19-03 11:37
No 434171
      Complete MDMA synthesis question?  Bookmark   

2g Pd.CL  and 10g of CuCL2 were pre-stirred in 1 liter of MeOH for 8 hours. This was added to a 3 liter reactor, along with 200g of freshly distilled safrole (b.p. 97-101 C) and just a little bit of water. The reactor was pressurized with O2 to 50psi and stirring was commenced for about 6 hours, at which point the absorption had completely ceased. The mixture was acidified with 1L of 5% HCL, the organic layer separated and washed with saturated  NaHCO3 solution. This layer was filtered twice to recover most of the Pd.
The organic layer once again separated,  washed with brine, and separated again. Distillation was commenced, and 178g of yellow MDP2P was recovered. B.p. 122-128 C.

5g of Sodium Bisulfate was dissolved in 15ml of water, 35ml of MeOH was added and stirred until uniform. To this was added 5g of the supposed ketone and the flask was vigorously shaken for about 5 minutes. The white crystalline precipitate was filtered off with a near quantitative yield.

MeNH2 was prepared via catalytic hydrogenation of nitromethane over Pd/C.

To 110g of MeNH2 in 1L of MeOH, the 173g of MDP2P was added dropwise, followed by enough GAA to bring the PH of the mixture to 5. Then 100g of anhydrous silica gel, and stirring was commenced for 6 hours. The silica gel was filtered off, everything was in solution, and 10g of  5% Pd/C was added to the mixture and charged into a 3 liter reactor. The reactor was purged with Argon 4 times, to 3 bar each time. Finally the reactor was pressurized to 2.5 bar with H2, and stirrer speed brought up to 700 rpm. Absorption started immediately and was fairly rapid. Within 1.5 hours it slowed down, and within 2.5 hours stopped. The reaction was stopped and the same purging procedure was performed, and finally the reactor was opened and the catalyst filtered off. Everything was still in solution. The methanol was evaporated off, the residue suspended in 1 L water, basified with 25% NaOH, extracted with Toluene, and toluene was evaporated off, and the residue distilled over at 115-120 C, and was completely crystal clear. Smelled kind of nice too.

Crystallization was attempted in absolute MeOH + product, and MeOH/H2SO4 and failed.

The organic layer was then recovered and suspended in 200 ml of water, to this there was added 2 L of 5% HCL and shaken. The oil was not soluted, 250ml of Toluene was added, and the mixture shaken vigorously. Two layers formed. The Toluene was separated off, and the aqueous layer, which was basified slowly with 25% NaOH. It heated up a little, but nothing dropped out.

I assume that I damaged the molecule somewhere during this process. It was my impression that this imine can only be hydrogenated to yield MDMA, and the catalyst was specificly selected for this reaction. The fact that absorption occurred indicated to me that the imine was absorbing the H2. But then again, what do I know. What do the bees think? Why this crystal clear oil with a correct boiling point does not go into acidic water? What could be wrong with that nitrogen ?

Hope that I don't get my stinger cut off for this, Bzzz
 
 
 
 
    SPISSHAK
(Hive Addict)
05-19-03 22:16
No 434274
      are you sure you got mdp2p?  Bookmark   

mdp2p boiling at 120 degress??
what kind of pressure are you distilling at?
Did you heat that O2 system it does'nt produce much ketone at room temp, in the older articles they heat the O2 system to ~ 50 degress to effect that oxidation.
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
05-20-03 03:59
No 434310
      --  Bookmark   

Your 3 liter reactor, was that a glass(lined) one? SSteel ones can force to form a Pd layer on the walls.
Your 5% Pd/C, was that reagens grade, from a professional source, or did you make it yourself?
Most homemade Pd/C is doomed to fail.
How much GAA was needed? Do you really have to acidify? Where do you get that from?


The Toluene was separated off, and the aqueous layer, which was basified slowly with 25% NaOH. It heated up a little, but nothing dropped out.



I think you have to (re?)read MadMax sticky Newbee post about Acid/Base washes: Post 286519 (MaDMAx: "LOOK! Recrystallization and A/B general info", Newbee Forum) :


Once you have freebase in your non-polar you can wash the non-polar solvent with water to get rid of any non-freebase drug material (such as excess lye). The water will not remove any of your freebase.
Then to recover your hydrochloride salt (the most popular form of most drugs), you react it with hydrochloric acid. Muriatic acid is hydrogen chloride (HCl) dissolved in water. So if you add this to the non-polar with the freebase, the freebase will react with the HCl to form the salt, which is now soluble in water and not in non-polar, so it will dissolve into the water layer, which you can separate and evaporate to obtain your crystals.
Etcetera.




Ofcourse nothing dropped out, you will have to acidify your basified solution again, then boil off the water. LT/

PS:


The organic layer was recovered and suspended in 200 ml of water, to this there was added 2 L of 5% HCL and shaken. The oil was not soluted



Yep, ofcourse not, you have to solute your freebase oil in a nonpolar solution, preferably dry >98% acetone IMHOpinion.

For your info:


Freebases and salts usually have drastically different properties. An important one is that freebases are usually soluble (will dissolve in) in non-polar solvents such as toluene and hot naphtha, and not soluble in polar solvents such as water. The salts are usually the opposite, soluble in water, but not toluene etc. This is how acid/base extractions (A/B) work.

You can basify your molecule with NaOH (lye) to form the freebase, which is not soluble in water, but it will dissolve in a non polar solvent. So you add your non-polar solvent and the freebase goes in to it (a lot faster if you shake it all up instead of waiting for the freebase to float up to it). Once you have freebase in your non-polar you can wash the non-polar solvent with water to get rid of any non-freebase drug material (such as excess lye). The water will not remove any of your freebase.




WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-20-03 10:48
No 434360
      LabTop, Daddy, please reply.  Bookmark   

Your 3 liter reactor, was that a glass(lined) one?
My reactor is PP, with teflon coated stirrer, no ss here.
Thanks for the thought though.
Your 5% Pd/C, was that reagens grade, from a professional source, or did you make it yourself?
It was bought.
How much GAA was needed? Do you really have to acidify? Where do you get that from?
../rhodium/chemistry /mdma.catalytic.html and JM

I think you have to (re?)read MadMax sticky Newbee post about Acid/Base washes:

Actually, I did, that is why the acidic water, product and Toluene (a non polar) ended up together after a failed crystallization. This is what I said:

The organic layer was then recovered and suspended in 200 ml of water, to this there was added 2 L of 5% HCL and shaken. The oil was not soluted, 250ml of Toluene was added, and the mixture shaken vigorously.

Ofcourse nothing dropped out, you will have to acidify your basified solution again, then boil off the water.
What I was expecting to drop out is of cource not crystals, but the oil. If the product was dissolved in the Toluene, and shaken with acidic water, then that acidic aqueous layer basified, that should have made the freebase drop out. Which would have been taken up in fresh Toluene, and redistilled. Tell me I am wrong.

Here is also a quote from terbidium:

terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
05-18-03 15:31
No 433999
            

Then if you put the freebase in acidic water (ala BrightStar) will it dissolve?

MDMA freebase will dissolve in acidic water. If you have something that will not dissolve in acidic water then that something is not MDMA freebase.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.[i]
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-20-03 11:02
No 434362
      REPLY To SPISSHAK  Bookmark   

From ../rhodium/chemistry /dmfo2wacker.html

"Vacuum distilled at ~2.0mm Hg to recover 311.22g PiperonylMethylKetone (MDP2P) fraction between 105-114įC."

Also, I read someone saying on this board that if you don't run this hot, you mostly get MDP1P.
But then I also read that on the new bee forum that MDP1P would not form the bisulfite adduct:

GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
05-04-03 14:22
No 431333

As I remember it, aldehydes and ketones should always be able to form bisulfite adducts, except in the case of phenones (acetophenone, benzophenone, ...). But frankly, I can't recall where I read it.
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
05-04-03 14:50
No 431343

Propiophenone.    

except in the case of phenones (acetophenone, benzophenone, ...)
Or propiophenones as in 3,4-methylenedioxypropiophenone (MDP1P). This is what Vogel seems to say.
 
 
 
 
    ClearLight
(Hive Addict)
05-20-03 11:56
No 434373
      GAkkk Where are my missing goodies!
(Rated as: good idea!)
 Bookmark   

Labtop gave a nice tlc indicator for mdma using .5% gallic acid and h2so4  Try 1 gm gallic acid in 100 mls  (95% EtOH + 5% H2SO4  V/V).

  Then take a drop of each of your mixes and put it on a watch glass, apply and gently heat.. if you get the pink/red color that's where your goodies are... You can run a plate w/  silica gel 60 w/ f254 indicator as the stationary and  97:3 Toluene-Ethyl Acetae as the mobile phase...  EthylAcetate-methanol-water-ammonia  (95:3.5:1.5:0.75) can also be used as a mobile phase...

  Then you'll know where it is, and what to do next... If you don't have a plate or don't know/want to make one.. use filter paper for paper chromo and spray with the reagent..

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
 
 
 
 
    SPISSHAK
(Hive Addict)
05-20-03 17:18
No 434414
      Okay if you ran the oxidation properly  Bookmark   

and you confirmed it, my only reasoning would be that your catalyst was poisoned.
In a pm I sent you I mention that traces of Carbon monoxide gas or sulfides are potent inhibitors to the activity of Palladium catalysts, and to be sure they are not present to first degas your reaction mixture by sonicating it with ultrasound as a precaution to avoid these poisons.
Seeing how you ran the reduction in methanol CO contamination might be a possible culprit.
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-20-03 20:08
No 434467
      SPISSHAK, I fucking love you man!  Bookmark   

SPISSHAK, I fucking love you man!

I think you nailed it with the ketone problem.
I never was able to find an MSDS for the commercially available ketone, not where I shop anyway. But after your reply I was forced to search about 20 minutes. Internet search produced an MSDS from some Korean company. I could not understand what the fuck it says there, but what I did understand is: b.p. 132 @ 2mm/Hg, 141 @ 4mm/Hg. Fuck, you have to run the shit hotshockedshockedshocked And I am pulling about 6mm.

I guess terbium is full of shit. Fuck, Rhodium too? NOfrown
And half of these lyeing motherfuckers on the Hive. 25 degrees higher then the saf...madmadmad
madmadmadIf I ever run into them......madmadmad

Thanks a bunch.

Don't lem the evil of the money trap you, And when you see me SPISSHAK, You better holla at me
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
05-20-03 21:53
No 434496
      ---  Bookmark   

Did you slightly edit your first post after I posted? I do not recall the "in absolute MeOH + product, and MeOH/H2SO4" part in your Crystallization failed attempt, and in the next line I have not a copied/pasted word "then" in it in my post. It's not a big deal, but after people react on a post, and you decide to edit something, one should use the word edit: to clear up things, so others can see that you changed something afterwards.
Btw, I editted my own post several times before I was satisfied with it, but before anyone else posted after me, so then one is just clearing things up, no need then to use "edit".
Btw2, I would not recommend to use MeOH and H2SO4 to crystallize MDMA-freebase in. You should use Acetone/freebase and bubble HCl gas in.

Now back to start thinking again about what could have caused your disappearing endproduct:

1. I'm not quite sure to remember it right, if there was quite a lot of commotion about this particular KrZ procedure (and some others of him). If I recall right, there were more than one duplicating attempts of it, who got the same result as you, no product as proposed. Some were hefty disappointed, and it lead to real loud discussions and namecallings, ending in KrZ getting pissed off majorly and deleting nearly all his posts regarding catalytic hydrogenation off the forums.
But I also remember him himself announcing that a soda keg from SSteel wasn't a bright idea afterall, because the SS reacted with the Pd/C, so glasslined or glass or PP reactors should be used. This after others pointed this out to him first. So he stood open for improvements afterall.
A lot of research attempts on catalytic hydrogenations died out for a long time after that chaotic period. Which was a pitty for us all.

2. I looked into your link of the KrZ method, and compared it to what you told us what you did, and see two big differences:
I.   KrZ: "" The mix was filtered once with vacuum to recover the catalyst (which was rinsed with MeOH), and again through celite to remove the brackish color present due to remaining catalyst particles. 4L of the solution was placed in a 5L distillation apparatus and 2L of MeOH was removed at atmospheric pressure, after cooling, the remainder of the mix was added, and distilled until the temperature rose to 80įC. After cooling, distillation was commenced again, collecting the acetic acid fraction.
   Argon:"" The methanol was evaporated off, (and then you proceed without collecting the acetic acid fraction by distillation) , the residue suspended in 1 L water, basified with 25% NaOH, extracted with Toluene, and toluene was evaporated off, and the residue distilled over at 115-120 C, and was completely crystal clear.""
If any damage of the molecules of the so dearly wanted product, MDMA freebase oil, could occure, it could perhaps be caused there by the big amount of GAA in KrZ's procedure ( 10 mol GAA to 9 mol MDP2P) you did not remove first, and then the percentual big amount of 25% NaOH you needed to neutralize the solution again.
I don't think the formed excess sodium acetate would interfere at all however, it solutes in the water part. Your toluene fraction should have the freebase in it and no salts at all.

II. The amounts you used and the amounts KrZ advices differ also, and he used 10%Platinum/C and you (half percentage:)5%Palladium/C, however, you should have got at least a substantial amount of crystallized product if all went well. Use of Platina or Palladium make a big difference in catalitic hydrogenations most of the time!
KrZ:
4L MeOH containing 620g (20 mol) Methylamine (Argon: 5.64 times less)
600g (10 mol) Glacial Acetic Acid (Argon: ?? times less)
1600g MDP2P (Argon: 9.25 times less)
100g 10% Platinum/C (Argon: 20 times less, 5% to 10%)

Argon:
110g of MeNH2 in 1L of MeOH (KrZ: 155 per liter MeOH)
??g GAA
173 g MDP2P
10g 5% Palladium/C

So, Argon used totally different amounts and even species of reactants, reagens and solutions then KrZ, which can be a source of failure also.

3. You forgot to mention the amount of supposed MDMA freebase, it should be according to KrZ's  writeup,  87.5% from your starting MDP2P. If you had substantially less or more, something went wrong before that step then.

4. The chance that something went wrong in your first procedure to obtain your MDP2P is in fact much higher. That one is questionable at the least by account of many here. And perhaps there's a flaw in your MeNH2 production too, who knows.

5. Let's not bicker any further about the A/B thingy, the problem at my side laid at interpreting  your ""The oil was not soluted"", I read there something you did WITH the oil, if you should have said "the oil did not solute", then we would have safed ourselfs both a lot of time, hehhe.

6. Clearlights suggestion to analyze at what point you really have MDMA oil or MDMA salt is the first step to take.  Without such a logical step we can't do much further for you, just say we feel sorry for you.
SPISSHAK's suggestion to heat till min. 50C I heard also mentioned before here.
Could be that all 3 methods you tried are not feasable in the form they were wrote down too, who knows?
So let us know. LT/

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
05-20-03 22:50
No 434498
      ???  Bookmark   

Argon, is this the gratitude of one who get helped, without anything asked in return? This is how things work here, you seem not to know.
I do not really understand why you are so rudely namecalling very respected members, but if I do, then it means that the fault lays totally at your side.
In asking the wrong or misformulated questions or just laziness and little persistence in Searching here.
Anybody visiting these forums for some time, and wanting to make MDMA, will Search here first for bp of MDMA, and find at least a very long thread by me and Argox in Methods last year Feb-March, where I posted lots of data, so also boilingpoints, of all reagentia involved in MDMA production, from Safrole to Isosafrole to MDP2P to MDMA. All sources of where I found these data are included there, so anybody can use those online sources for thousands of other usefull compounds also.
So how the fuck you couldn't find the bp of MDP2P at normal pressure and how to easily perform a check on a small sample of the supposed MDP2P you had in hand by just typing that into the Search is beyond any comprehension to me.
Your heated reaction on basicly your own faulty reading and researching here, reminds me a lot of the user which differs only one character in username with your name.
The thread was about freezing out safrole by Argox.
Btw, any selfrespecting short and longtime active member here knows these bp's by heart.

PS: I started working on the above answer to your problems SEVEN hours ago, and posted it at last at the time stamped, while all the time beeing offline, so that's why you got such a long answer at all, if I should have seen your last post before I posted, you should have got a totally different one. Especially because it took at my time from 00:00 to 07:00 just to answer your problems (No sleep yet!).
Simply caused by the fact that one has to read and reread posts like these to find in the blind, possible causes of failures in posts where several important facts are left out or forgotten unintentionally mostly. Ofcourse I do this only for posts which really interest me and a solution would benefit all of you out there, now directly or in the future.

So a very well phrased apology is in place. LT/ mad

WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    roger2003
(Hive Bee)
05-21-03 03:46
No 434526
      If the first step (MDP2P) was ok, in the next...  Bookmark   

If the first step (MDP2P) was ok, in the next step was synthesized the metylimine and thean the reaction stopped between the methylimine and the metylamine.

So you have to do one more step with RaneyNi
 
 
 
 
    Barium
(Hive Addict)
05-21-03 05:41
No 434541
      No Roger  Bookmark   

There is no way the N-methylimine of MDP2P caould have survived the acidic enviroment during the A/B washes and crystallisation to the extent that it still would be the major product. Sure it can be found in minute traces, but other than that no. A N-methylimine of a aromatic aldehyde is on the other hand stable enough for isolation, but even such a relatively stable imine should be reduced asap if good yields of the corresponding amine is desired.

This is a textbook example of why it is necessary to measure the hydrogen uptake. If this worker bee would have done this simple task we would know if one mol hydrogen/mol MDP2P was taken up followed by a abrupt cessation of the uptake. What type of stirring was used? What temperature range was used for the hydrogenation? Further information about the type of 5%Pd/C used can help.

Can someone informed please share some light on the topic glass lined reactors vs. stainless steel reactors, because I have no idea of what you are talking about and I have done a fair number of hydrogenations.

Edit
Is it hard to calculate the hydrogen uptake? No!!

Example: A 500 ml reactor filled with 200 ml reaction mixure which should take up 1,5 mol H2.

Reactor volume - reaction volume = avaliable gas volume at STP (500ml - 200ml = 300ml)
1,5mol H2 x 22,4 (mol volume of H2 at STP) = 33,6L (the volume of hydrogen at STP which should be consumed)
If 600 ml H2 is pressed into the reactor the pressure would be 2 bar, so if 33,6L H2 is pressed into the reactor at once the pressure would be 112 bar (33,6L / 300ml = 112). It is more likely that the reactor is pressurized to 15 bar, then hydrogen is consumed until the pressure is 5 bar and the reactor is refilled with hydrogen to 15 bar. This is then repeted until 112 bar of hydrogen is consumed. By this simple method nothing more than the pressure gauge already in place is needed to very accurately measure the hydrogen uptake.

Remeber to measure the actual volume of the reactor (my 500 ml reactor has a actual volume of 545ml). To do this, open the reactor and fill it to the rim with water put the lid back on, then open it again and measure the remaining volume of water.

Edit 2

If two moles hydrogen/mol MDP2P is consumed in the hydrogenation and no alkaline product can be recovered you have successfully made 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propane. If one molar equivalent is consumed and no alkaline product is recoverable then the alcohol has been made.

Measure the hydrogen uptake, measure the hydrogen uptake, measure the hydrogen uptake....
Do I need to repeat it once again?..Measure the hydrogen uptake!!

Freaky
 
 
 
 
    roger2003
(Hive Bee)
05-21-03 07:28
No 434553
      There are less than 1 Mol MDP2P an more than 3  Bookmark   

There are less than 1 Mol MDP2P an more than 3 Mol MeNH2 and than GAA to pH 5

I don`t knew the result of (professional) hydrogenation (with Pd/C) from this mixture, but I think it is not  MDMA
crazy
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-21-03 09:42
No 434578
      To LaBTop  Bookmark   

To LabTop:

I did add a half a sentence to my post to clarify the obviuos misunderstanding about the A/B.

Also, I really appreciate the time people take to read and answer my posts.

But what I do not appreciate is people posting misinformation on Rhodium, and all over The-Hive, including your posts. You said this is how things work around here. It sounds like words of a provocateur to me.

How easy would it be to fix that dmf/o2 wacker post on Rhodium?

Let me ask you another question, you give the government the access to you log file on that RedHat box? I know that you have too with the laws nowdays.
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-21-03 09:46
No 434579
      To Barium  Bookmark   

Hey Barium,

Thanks man, your posts are always helpful, and accurate.

Unlike some of these provocateurs.

Don't let them get you.
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
05-22-03 02:06
No 434705
      Pitty one.  Bookmark   

1. We (moderators/admins) don't have and will never have (probably) a Hive research laboratorium which only dedication would be to check and recheck ALL chemistry posts in a lab.
We also obviously don't have the time personally to perform ALL reactions and posted methods around here, so we can only assist theoretically or in a few cases practically based on personal experience in rating the credibility of posts.
The rating system is implemented just a few months now, and NOBODY up till now from us Moderators has found it possible to rate older posts AFTER the rating started, because implementing our rating window in old posts would prolly wreck the whole board( or not, Admins?)
In most cases you can count however on the credibility of most methods IF they are rated or appear on Rhodiums site. And STILL there could be major(seldom) or minor(often!) flaws in it. We have NO Pfizer research labs with millions of research money at hand!

2. The same goes for Rhodiums site, just as obvious. As anyone with a birdbrain can see, the huge amount of articles in there would even make it impossible for a well equiped University lab to check/perform all articles there.

""How easy would it be to fix that dmf/o2 wacker post on Rhodium?""
He only changes info in articles after a few credible sources or himself(very unlikely btw) have confirmed a blatent fault in it, or even confirm that the whole method is crap, which leads to deleting the method. He should leave a note then, with enough info on the proposed method, so that Searchers who find that crap still somewhere on this board or elsewhere, will be warned of the uncredibility of it.
Btw, he has removed proven crap methods several times (without public notification, I think).
The simple fact that somewhere between the thousands of posts some one mentions that you need elavated temps for the DMF/O2 wacker post on Rhodium means only one thing:
The ones interested in it out of theoretical or practical interest will find it automatically while they are reading ALL chemistry posts every day, or use their brain a bit better and do a quick selective Search EVERY fuckin day on the subjects they are interested in, using the right words or data or abbreviations.
Then ONLY the practicising ones will try it out.
YOU seem to be one of the very first ones trying it out and POSTING on it. How many will do the same, but will not POST their findings? Because we have a terrible bunch of egocentrically greedy oriented egotrippers around here, so we are all dependend on just the very few who take the RISK to POST their results.
That's the only one fuckin reason I still reply to you: posting your research, however still mixed with rude insults.
You obviously think that the method you are working at now should have the full attention of ALL members plus the moderators, while you think it's the most important undergoing event on the planet these days. Let me tell you: all newsnetworks will differ in opinion with you on this. We also do, for the most part. Most members have their own little pearl of attention span at this very moment, and for them, the way you dress up your posts with unnescessairy comments, will give them the impression to deal with a selfish motherfucker who badly needs this board to get ANY result at all, but when his research ends up the VERY first time doing this method in a failure(normal procedure for most of us, FYInfo), starts spouting badmouthing to the very ones who have helped him in the very first place by collecting those methods in the Rhodium forum to use OR research and check further. It is NO guarantee at all that ANY method proposed there will work AT ALL, only AFTER you, the MEMBER, has repeated it to the letter and found out it does or doesn't work as proposed, perhaps and post your try-out. The bulk of them WILL work, btw.

Most moderators here around do read HUNDREDS of posts, sometimes ALL posts in ALL forums EVERY fuckin day, to keep up just THAT, the CREDIBILITY of this so important board for you all. We have tens of interesting RESEARCH posts to think about, every day, and try to answer them as good as we can, in many cases ending up in more workload, because the poster start PMing us, thus causing us double work. WORK means going to libraries, checking books and journals, PMing colleagues about it, talking to friends in real life, etc.
This is exactly the way SCIENCE works, post an article and WAIT for more than one confirmation of the proposed method or thoughts.

3.

But what I do not appreciate is people posting misinformation on Rhodium, and all over The-Hive, including your posts. You said this is how things work around here. It sounds like words of a provocateur to me.



If you don't understand by now, how utterly pitty that last opinion sounds, you should apply for instant banning this moment.
Or be considered by others here as the real provocateur.

Rhodium brings posts from the Hive solely on his OWN site, no one else does, and takes every time the risk to be attacked by selfish ones like you, if some theoretical error slipped through his attention or a method is just not working in practice, in part or totally. Nobody on this board can check personally all the Rhodium.ws methods, or my posts, or any posts, period!
What we try to do is leading our members to try at least the best methods for UNDERGROUND cooks like you?, who should take the safests and cheapests routes to their endproducts, and then post their eventual failures so we can discuss all to solve his problem, or post their successes so we all will be more secured in our belief in that very method.
And ofcourse lots of wouldbe chemists, cooks and plain idiots will interfere with that discussion, it's all to the eye of the beholder to sift through these words.

4. Log files: just type those words in Search, you paranoid droid. The server is NOT US based! And logfiles are WIPED thoroughly, we only use them to get rid of nasty critters who we feel want to undermine the principle of this board :

FREE WISDOM for ALL.    LT/


WISDOMwillWIN
 
 
 
 
    roger2003
(Hive Bee)
05-22-03 04:25
No 434718
      Laptop you are right, and i never saw a ...  Bookmark   

Laptop you are right, and i never saw a reductive amination (in the chemical literature) with pH 5.
 
 
 
 
    SPISSHAK
(Hive Addict)
05-22-03 05:22
No 434719
      well put  Bookmark   

It is up to the serious scientist to verify the information via refering to the actual literature to confirm all claims presented herin.
If this is not done there is none other to blame than the halfassed reseacher for his failures.
 
 
 
 
    Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
05-22-03 05:43
No 434722
      Don't blame us when you waste all your ketone...  Bookmark   

Don't blame us when you waste all your ketone in one run.
Fucking do some small scale experimentation first. That's called common sense where I come from.

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
 
 
 
 
    Argon
(Stranger)
05-23-03 12:53
No 435008
      To LaBTop  Bookmark   

LaBTop, Daddy...


You talk a lot, I will give you that. Very little accurate content, though.

You fucking helping me?!?  PleaseÖ
The people who did help me are Krz, BrightStar, Barium, Osmium, AB2, Chromic, and SPISSHAK. You just try to confuse people.

You donít realize one thing. This might seem like a funny joke to you, but the bullshit you posted up almost cost me my life, and others had accidents that they could not recover from and are doing time, and some are disfigured or dead.

I canít wait for the day that we meet. Maybe then I can explain my thrustration to you better.

May be someone can help you with this question. What happens to provocateurs?

I donít know how ignorant you have to be to post garbage like yours. I donít have the knowledge, but I wish Barium would destroy your bullshit ďDetailed Methods for Non ChemistsĒ post.  By the way, when you say above that you did not verify anything you posted, are you publicly admitting to being a fraud? cool

And the rest of you, how can you allow it? Donít you know people get hurt because of this fraudís posts.  This is not funny.

___________________________________________________________
P.S. I spoke to Krz about his posts, and what he says is that he deleted his posts because the feds were trying to IP trace him, based on info from your server, and he was deleting evidence, and has been laying low ever since. Seems someone was pissed about accurate production methods being openly posted. Was that you by chance? I guess we will soon find out.

I am going to give you a taste of your own chemistry.
 
 
 
 
    LaBTop
(Daddy)
05-25-03 15:12
No 435486
      Last words on the subject :  Bookmark   

Please do us a big favor, and read Post 350684 (Rhodium: "Half-a-Pint - RIP", General Discourse) now and then the coming time, untill you understand the full implications of this great Bee's unselfish life, deeds and thoughts, and what you could achieve yourself if you could set your mind to the real important things in life.

Hopefully all of you understand that the Hive is doing the best it can to stand for the same altruistic ideals.
Since nobody's perfect, let's hope wisdom will prevail. LT/, [sad].

WISDOMwillWIN