evoh_1 (Stranger)
05-31-03 03:20
No 436759
      Possible precursors for MDMA  Bookmark   

Just looking through one of my old organic chemistry texts i looked up on vanillin and started thinking about the good old idea of OTC safrole or safrole type MDMA precursors. So i read on and it says that Vanillin can be processed into Protcatechualdehyde through heating (i expect it means relux) with HCl acid. Now i don't know what sort of concentration or amounts we would be looking at but it seems suitable.
(C6H3 OH 0CH3 CHO) + HCl --> (C6H3 OH OH CHO) + CH3Cl
Methyl Chloride is a gas and should just come out of solution
Piperonal is synthesised from this by methylenation by either CH2I2 or CH2Cl2 and 2 NAOH.
(C6H3 OH OH CHO) + CH2I2(Cl) + 2NaOH --> (C6H3 0-CH2-0 CHO) + NAI(Cl) + 2H20

Apoligies for the way i have typed the formulae but i can't be bothered to draw it out right now.
Hopefully we can get some feedback going on this topic.
 
 
 
 
    yellium
(I'm Yust a Typo)
05-31-03 06:52
No 436773
      Ever wondered what 'UTFSE' meant?  Bookmark   

Ever wondered what 'UTFSE' meant?
 
 
 
 
    evoh_1
(Stranger)
05-31-03 07:21
No 436776
      descussion  Bookmark   

i am not asking a specific question iam try to start a sort of discussion on the process and what you would do so stop just reacting with "UTFSE" Because i preffer to answer my questions that way. However this is more of broad questioning and possiblities of the process.
 
 
 
 
    yellium
(I'm Yust a Typo)
05-31-03 12:28
No 436835
      Yeah, i hear you. But if you'd UTFSE you would  Bookmark   

Yeah, i hear you. But if you'd UTFSE you would have noticed that those possible precursors for mdma have been discussed to death, and that it is generally accepted that those precursors are out of reach for chemists doing chemistry as a hobby. Which is mainly due to bad yields of the proposed reactions, expensive and hard-to-obtain chemicals and tricky workups.

If it was doable, then it would have been discussed more :-+
 
 
 
 
    carboxyl
(Hive Addict)
06-18-03 00:50
No 440743
      Hint  Bookmark   

../rhodium/chemistry /methylenation.html smile

Don't misunderestimate a person if he or her is working toward the embetterment of America.
 
 
 
 
    El_Zorro
(Hive Addict)
06-19-03 14:27
No 441128
      That might be a viable reaction, but you have...  Bookmark   

That might be a viable reaction, but you have to consider several factors.

1. Overall yeild.  Granted, Vanillin and HCl have got to be some of the cheapest chems out there, but you would have to know whether the yeild is even worth the trouble.

2. The reaction will have to be done under an inert atmosphere, or the aldehyde group will most likely oxidize to the carboxylic acid.  And you would have to figure out a way to keep the inert atmosphere intact while letting the methyl chloride gas excape.

2. Toxicity of methyl chloride.  Do you know anything about methyl chloride?  I don't really know anything myself, but I know methyl bromide is very toxic.  That doesn't necesarily mean that methyl chloride will be, but it definately deserves looking into.

4. If you do make piperonal, then what are you going to do with it?  Do you have a safe supply of nitroethane?  And if you're thinking about synthing your own nitroethane, you can pretty much forget it.  I have not seen one single nitroethane synth that is very viable for small-scale hobby chemists, or even for large-scale chemists with good connections on chems.  This is probably one of the biggest hurdles you'll have to overcome, considering that the entire reaction scheme depends on this one chemical.  Unless, of course, you're going to use a grignard reaction.  But then, IMHO, grignard reactions are not practical for clandestine chemists with limited equipment and who are interested in large-scale applications.  Zincorganic versions of the same reactions would most likely be better for clandestine chemists, due to them being easier to keep anhydrous.  But the reactions work better when the halogen used the start off with is iodine, so you'll have to make that adjustment as well.

It is seductive, way too seductive.             -Eleusis