robot (Stranger)
07-05-03 12:51
No 444738
      Massive Psilocybe Cubensis Cultivation Bee Style  Bookmark   

I was just thinking, hypothetically how could one go about producing say 50 kg of dried shrooms per month. Im not interested in growing shrooms myself, this is merely a theoretical problem for me. Here is what Ive come up with so far:

The key is to mix a large amount of mycelium water and H2O2 (making it say 3% h2o2) than mix this thouroghly with a shit load of dry cow shit (in the right proportion of liquid to shit). The H2O2, Ive read, wont kill the mycelium but will kill contamination. They say that H2O2 may slow down colonization a little, but that wont matter because the mycelium will be at every point in the mass of cow shit so it will be compleatly colonized within a few days! Once the substrate is colonized, contamination is much less likely to fuck things up.  Furthermore, the H2O2 decomposes releasing O2 wich I hear helps growth.

So here's the theoretical untested proceedure:
Take colonized pf cakes, grind them up in a blender with 3% H2O2. Now add each slurry to a  large (say ten gal arrowhead jug)  container of a mixute of 3% h2o2 and agar or honey or some nutrient. Seal the container and let the mycelium grow for a couple of weeks. So now you have dozens of 10 gal jugs of mycelium water. Dump each jug into a trashbag full of compost, mix thouroughly and tie the bags  closed. Of corse you must use the right proportion of mycelium water to shit.Wait two weeks befor opening the bags and boom you have hundreds of pounds of colonised cow shit. Now for fruiting you're going to need alot of space.

So what do you guys think? It's nothing really innovative, Im just suprised that not many people grow like this (or they dont discus it online).

Mother, I may be a robot, but you are not allowed to touch my penis.
07-05-03 15:08
No 444765
      rye  Bookmark   

just do grain to grain transfers with rye.
then case.
07-06-03 01:09
No 444850
      Ever heard about autoclaving?  Bookmark   

Ever heard about autoclaving? The idea of mixing the the mycelium with H2O2 before inoculation sounds VERY stupid to me smile.
07-06-03 16:42
No 445017
      Im sorry if my post was stupid, I ate the...  Bookmark   

Im sorry if my post was stupid, I ate the toxic mushrooms once.
Well it seems to be working for this guy BTW, I wouldnt buy that book, maybe h2o2 is the golden key and the above link was set up by the D as a trap.laugh Thing is, it would get kind of difficult to make 500+ pounds of spawn by atoclaving 50+ bags of substrate and than inoculating each of them. Its also much slower thus increasing the risk of contamination. Using my theoretical method, the mycelium is already mixed in thouroughly with the subtrate so growth occures everywhere simaltaniuosly.
(Hive Bee)
07-06-03 18:15
No 445042
      fungus  Bookmark   

You have to pasteurize your cow shit by putting it in a pillow case and boiling it for a few hours, you can guess how wonderfull this smells

I do assume you know how important it is to have everything sterile for production of clean mycelium/mushrooms, and dealing with a large scale such as this would be really hard to maintain without the proper equipment

I think making 22 pounds of dry shrooms a month(it will take you a long time to colonize large ammounts of mycelium) is reasonable if you have the knowledge/equipment/time/space/money to spend

after clicking that link you posted I hope you don't think that cultivation of edible mushrooms is the same thing as psychoactive mushrooms.
07-06-03 19:05
No 445052
      Thanks for the input  Bookmark   

I said 50kg not 22 pounds. Are you saying that 500 pounds of colonized CS will produce roughly 22 pounds? What do you think is the flaw in the outline I gave? Perhaps with the use of h2o2 the cow shit doesnt need to be pasturized.

Can you remember the good old days before you spilled toluene on yourself?
(Hive Bee)
07-06-03 19:38
No 445064
      h202 (let alone 3%) won't kill most of the...  Bookmark   

h202 (let alone 3%) won't kill most of the contaminants in cow manure

do some research ,
 a good starting website is

the yeilds on cultivating mushrooms depends on your technique and knowledge you could colonize 1lb of clean mycelia but if you don't know what your doing you could yeild  1 mushroom
see what I'm saying?

you should look at the PF TEK(with the 50/50mix and jars) first before you try anything else.

I wish someone did produce 50kg of shrooms a month around here, in nor cal there is a huge drought on shrooms frown

I belive the reason not many people cultivate shrooms is because it takes to long(couple of months) and not that much $ can be made per ounce (my 0yr old sister use to pay 160.00 an ounce)
on the other hand methamphetamine can be made in a day and sold around the 1000.00 mark per ounce
07-06-03 19:53
No 445066
      You know that 1/8 of an ounce is about 3.5...  Bookmark   

You know that 1/8 of an ounce is about 3.5 grams, so 1 oz is 28g, so a pound is about 448g, 1kg is 1000g, so 1kg is about 2.2 pounds, so 50kg is about 110 pounds.

Maybe 6% H2O2 should be used?

Can you remember the good old days before you spilled toluene on yourself?
(Hive Bee)
07-06-03 20:09
No 445072
      you're correct  Bookmark   

your correct I fucked up,

any % of h202 will not kill all the contaminants in cow shit.
07-06-03 20:26
No 445078
      Hehe ok well mixing with h2o2 is not going to...  Bookmark   

Hehe ok well mixing with h2o2 is not going to solve all of your contamination problems. H2O2 will not kill your mycellium in small amounts, but it will also not kill of the mycellium of any other possible contaminant. It will help prevent spores, and other single cell organisms from contaminating your bags of shit or whatever you are using but you had better be sure there is no multicellular contamination already on your substrate.

Enlightenment through chemistry
07-06-03 22:57
No 445130
      Thanks for the additional input. More More!  Bookmark   

Lilliental, could you please explain why you think it was such a stupid idea? It just occured to me that you might have said that for another reason than I initially thought. Will the psilocybin oxidise? Wont the h202 mostly have decomposed by the time it friuts? You are a chemist, I am not. Im a student.

Anyways, I think it could be the combination of H2O2 (maybe 3-8%) and thourough mixing of the mycelium water throughout the cow shit. It will grow at every point in the pile, AND the shit will be filled with O2. Just think about that. After all, this stuff grows in the wild which makes you wonder, HOW? The comonly accepted explaination is that there are just so many spores everywhere that most piles of droppings wont grow because of contamination but a few lucky ones will. Hmm, is that the full explaination? As a thought expirement, imagine a giant feild with a million seperate piles of shit. Now thrown all over the field by the wind are thousands of differnt types of spores and bacteria. Now the ones that get lucky, what exactly happened there? There just isnt enough bacteria and mold on the lucky ones? There certainly would be bacteria and contamination in every single pile, I guesse the lucky ones just have less contamsand the psilocybe mycelium over took it. Or maybe there is more to it than that. What other chemicals are in the fresh shit... methane, what else? Its a conspiracy man, they are so concerned about shrooms. Did you know they just recently came out with an anti-hallucinogin comercial.

Anyways, dont want to trail off topic, dont want to give them any excuse to lock this thread (Im just kidding guys). I think there is some simple proceedure out there that anybody with enough space can use to cultivate  hundreds of kilos of shrooms without too much hassle.

Anyone have any clever ideas?

Can you remember the good old days before you spilled toluene on yourself?
07-07-03 01:59
No 445164
      The thread IS close to being closed!  Bookmark   

The thread IS close to being closed! Please use your common sense before posting. Spores are more resistent to H2O2, but mycelium will be killed like everything else. Also H2O2 might not be sufficient to sterilize cow dung (even if pasteurizing might be enough).
(Hive Addict)
07-07-03 09:55
No 445257
      re: H202 Tek  Bookmark   

There actually is an H202 tek out there for mushroom cultivation.. I bought it and it's on my home computer. Have not had a chance to try it yet, but the author reports increased resistance to contamination and easier growing. It WILL kill the mycelium, which is why it is used for a preliminary treatment ( as i recall). A google should give more details.

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
07-07-03 12:01
No 445283
      "Spores are more resistent to H2O2, but...  Bookmark   

"Spores are more resistent to H2O2, but mycelium will be killed like everything else. Also H2O2 might not be sufficient to sterilize cow dung (even if pasteurizing might be enough)."

Ever wonder why you can make mycellium syringes in which you add peroxide, but you cannot make spore syringes with peroxide. If I am not mistaken yachej did a little exerpt in an entheogen review which detatils the use of h2o2 in mycellium syringes.

Uhhhh???  Sorry lil you are completely wrong in this instance. If I need to I will post references but the fact that h2oh does not kill mycellium in semi dilute amounts BUT DOES kill spores is well established fact. It would be a shame to close the thread based on your misunderstanding of mycology. And I am quite sure of this through both experience and reading. Do some searching on the shroomery or anywhere else for that matter.

ApoStLe oF cHaoS
07-07-03 14:07
No 445315
      Mhhm, links?  Bookmark   

Mhhm, links?
07-07-03 15:18
No 445333
      Ok if I must  Bookmark   

Well I suppose i can search some links for you although I am quite confident that if you went to the shroomery and simply searched for peroxide or h2o2 that you could satisfy yourself.  Right off the bat here is a reference:

Entheogen review
winter solstice 2001 volume 4
page 137
auther Yachaj (a fellow bee if I am not mistaken)

"get a knife out of the hot water, cut a small wedge out of the cake and place it in the syringe barrel. Remove syringe barrel from from cake and insert the plunger. Point needle upwards and eject air. Now draw 1cc of cold clean tap water into syringe, 0.2 cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide and the cleanest air you have available. shake vigorously  eject air, and allow peroxide to work for 5 minutes then innoculate a new glass of pf substrate."

I skipped over a few things which were irrelenant but I am quite sure that this is sufficient as a reference. Do some searching on your own, this is actually the only time I have heard ANY objection to the fact that h202 can be used in mycology.  If you really need more than my word, the word of everyone else that posted on this topic, the entheogen review artical and the information posted at the shroomery then I will go find more evidence for you.

ApoStLe oF cHaoS
(Hive Bee)
07-07-03 15:27
No 445339
      bottom line heat(& pressure is best) should be  Bookmark   

bottom line heat(& pressure is best) should be used to kill contams in substrate before innoculation of spores

no more of this h202 buisness..
07-07-03 17:58
      "no more of this h202 buisness..
(Rated as: whining)
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-07-03 21:05
No 445445  Bookmark

The first three books are by Paul Stamets- I would recommend his books for ANYBODY wanting to learn, grow or otherwise advance in their mycological understanding.  Not to mention all three books will give you EXACTLY the information you need. 

Next time, UTFSE!!!!!!!!

Act quickly or not at all.
07-07-03 21:27
No 445462
      Just remember to not have those books shiped...  Bookmark   

Just remember to not have those books shipped to your address and dont use your credit card. These days...

Post 445299 (not existing)
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-07-03 22:15
No 445479
      Number 4  Bookmark   

the 4th book is the only one that could even be considered suspect.  the others don't really focus on psychedelic mushrooms. they do have their place in the books, but you won't get busted for ordering them.

You definitely won't get busted from here.  And if you can't get a book, just ask them- they'll surely be able to find a place you can order from.  (they sell more of these books, if not all of them, on this site)

Act quickly or not at all.
07-07-03 23:34
      Well since you posted this, they might take...
(Rated as: paranoid)
07-07-03 23:45
      The dea cares, I think they are really ...
(Rated as: off-topic)
(Hive Addict)
07-08-03 04:28
No 445552
      Get that H2O2 and use it in performic acid...  Bookmark   

Get that H2O2 and use it in performic acid oxidation,get an autoclave and sterilize whatever you want to at 120 C 1 hour.

For those about to synth,we salute you
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-08-03 06:24
No 445586
      Mycology  Bookmark   

As strange as it may sound to you, Mycology (the study of mushrooms - or more correctly- fungi) is actually a much more common pursuit than most people give it credit.  I personally know of four or five people who regularly go hunting for mushrooms- for culinary purposes, but there a couple more who do for other reasons. 

There is nothing illegal or immoral about studying these organisms.  It's like saying that if I study toads, I'll be busted for toad-lickingtongue (bufotenine mmm, mmm good).

Act quickly or not at all.
(Hive Addict)
07-08-03 11:42
No 445629
      Link to tek  Bookmark   

Lil, here's the link to the h202 tek...

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
07-08-03 13:19
No 445653
      Sounds indeed like an alternative for working...  Bookmark   

Sounds indeed like an alternative for working under sterile conditions... Seems like I was wrong smile. Would be interesting to get his concentrations without buying those book...
(Hive Bee)
07-08-03 17:28
No 445717
      Interesting comment on sterility of growth medium  Bookmark   

He says:

There is little use for peroxide in preparation of compost. This is because compost is by nature not a sterile substrate. Properly made compost should have a tremendous diversity of microorganisms in it, even after it heats up to temperatures high enough to kill insects and weed seeds. This diversity of microoganisms should protect the mushrooms from molds and pathogens. The appearance of significant mold growth during the colonization of compost by mushroom tissue is a likely sign that the compost lacks an important set of microorganisms, perhaps because it was allowed to get too hot. Although one might be able to control such mold or pathogen growth with peroxide, a better solution is to correct the procedure for compost preparation. See Dr. Elaine Ingham's fascinating website, for more information on what makes good compost."

Maybe this applies to cowshit too?

HRH The Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Knight of the Garter, Rogerer of Servant Girls
(Hive Addict)
07-08-03 21:05
No 445758
      concentrations  Bookmark   

--- From the book ----

To be on the safe side with my plate cultures, I use the lowest concentration of peroxide that I have found effective in agar medium, which is about 0.018%, or 6 mls per liter of medium. (You can add twice this much without visible harm to the mycelium of the species I have grown, but note that very slow-growing species such as Stropharia may be more sensitive to peroxide exposure. The production of protective peroxide-decomposing enzymes seems to be roughly parallel to the rate of growth of the organism). When the plate is inoculated, the concentration presumably begins to drop slowly below the initial level as the peroxide is decomposed by the spreading mycelium. Eventually, the peroxide should disappear completely when the agar is overgrown, if not earlier. Once this stage is reached, colonies of mold may begin to appear at the edge of the agar plate.


  since this guy has put a lot of work into it.. i'm not going to post up the whole thing here.. but it is really worth getting...

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-09-03 11:37
No 445917
      Book recommendation  Bookmark   

are you saying that you do indeed recommend buying his book?  I had considered it a while back, but was short on cash at the time.

Act quickly or not at all.
07-09-03 14:07
No 445942
      Biojamer, is that enough to compleatly ...  Bookmark   

Biojamer, is that enough to compleatly steralize the substrate? BRF gets contaminated very easily. Are you speaking from expirience or theory? May I sugest adding h202 to the water while preparing the substrate. It will decompose in the microwave, no?

What are some other less suspicious chemicals that can be used instead of h2o2? Sodium benzoate, perhaps?

07-09-03 14:11
No 445945
      clearlight, robot already posted that link.
(Rated as: see ya, robot!)

clearlight, robot already posted that link. Please tell me its post is visable to you!
07-09-03 16:43
No 445974
      Re: There is little use for peroxide in ...  Bookmark   

There is little use for peroxide in preparation of compost. This is because compost is by nature not a sterile substrate. Properly made compost should have a tremendous diversity of microorganisms in it, even after it heats up to temperatures high enough to kill insects and weed seeds.

Generally, the best growers use manure sucessfully by using spawn, because as the passage alludes to, its impractical to sterilize large quantities of manure or compost.

Spores alone innoculated in manure may take, but the competition with other organisms would be high. Using already flourishing mycelium, however, means that the mushrooms will likely overpower competitors in a reasonably clean environment.

And so, our ingenious growers will, for example, sterilize grain in a pressure cooker or autoclave, then carefully introduce spores. the result in some weeks is that they have now a dense mixture of the desired mycelium which they then mix in with the manure/compost/whatever to give it more in space and nutrient potential.

Peroxide has been used successfully by large scale growers to combat invaders on the compost/manure/whatever casings. A common one is cobweb mold, which if caught early enough, is destroyed by the peroxide, and the stronger mycelium survives. however, peroxide does stunt the growth of or even damage it, and it certainly shouldnt be used too much unless you have to. Most good growers stay away from using H2O2 at all with spores, and i concur that this is probably the most favorable of routes, although its actual effects are to my knowledge unknown.

(Hive Addict)
07-10-03 14:45
No 446270
      Book is worth buying..  Bookmark   

Yes, there is a lot of useful info in that book...

  I was responding to lil's request for a link, but did not see robot's prior link on that...

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
(Hive Bee)
07-14-03 11:39
No 447151
      H2O2  Bookmark   

Fuck H2O2. Normal sterrilizing is good enough.
If you use Mycelia-water to incubate you have alot more change of succes. Mycelia can defend itself a little. It is stronger then Spore-water.
If you start with spores just incubate a agar dish. Select the purest and most healthy colony of Mycelia and incubate again a Agar dish, and again and again until you have a pure beautiful white strain. (Dont forget sterilizing in a pressure cooker.)
Cut it into pieces and put them into jars with sterilized water and dextrose. Put it into a dark and warm place. Let the Mycelia grow a few weeks and shake every day the jars. With this Mycela water you can Incubate other sterilized jars with water dextrose. And with those jars indefinitly other jars. Easy.
Your substrate will colonize faster with Mycelia water. It has more defense against other contaminations, but you always have to sterilize.

When you have innoculated your substrate Coldshock it. Put it in the frigde for 24 hours (in the dark). Make sure the Temp and Humidification are stable. Temp should be between the 75 and 85 F degrees. Humidication should be around the 90%.
Put the substrate in the shadow. Natural light is the best. Make it Night and day. 12 hours in the shadow 12 hours in the dark. cool
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-14-03 11:51
No 447156
      Techniques for Pure Strian Mycelium  Bookmark   

Take the best sample of mycelium that you currently have.  Take a agar plate and place the mycelium on the plate as though you were going to culture it.  Now, spray the the surface, mycelium and agar both, with a weak solution of gentamycin sulfate.  Next, add another film of agar on top of the mycelium plate.  The mycelium will recover faster and grow faster than the contaminants and will begin to grow through the agar to the top and to the edges. As soon as you have a good amount of mycelium growing either out the sides or out the top, collect a small sample [red]without[/i] digging into the agar.  Repeat this procedure with the newly collected peice of mycelium.  After the second or third grow period, you will have substancially pure mycelium for propagation. 

gentamycin sulfate is available as a eye sanitation/disinfectant to help treat 'pinkeye'.  I believe it might be available cheaply through some chem suppliers also.

Act quickly or not at all.
(Hive Bee)
07-21-03 08:29
No 448824
      Soda pop factory method  Bookmark   

Robot wrote:

How could one go about producing say 50 kg of dried shrooms per month.

Even if it were legal it would probably be outdated to do so. Dried mushrooms are of lower quality than fresh. And the freshest mushrooms are obtained when the end user is growing him/herself. If quality is among your concerns I would inoculate 10,000 PF TEK style halfpint whiskyglasses, vacuum seal each of them and tell the customers to remove the seal 4-6 weeks before they need the mushrooms. Air will enter the substrate (filtered through the dry contaminant barrier on top), spores will germinate and mushrooms will grow 'in vitro'. Totally maintenance free.

No autoclave - no peroxide - and the vacuum sealed glasses do not look suspicious at all (in most places on this planet they are not even illegal). But you probably need some professional mixing equipment for the substrate and a soda pop factory setup for the inoculation.

In the third edition of the mushroom cultivator's bible Growing Gourmet and MedicinalMush rooms (TEN SPEED PRESS, 2000), author PAUL STAMETS explains:

The ultimate shortcut for culturing mushrooms is via spore mass/liquid-inoculation directly into fruiting substrates (p. 133). Bottle culture is an effective means for growing a variety of gourmet and medicinal mushrooms on sterilized substrates. Currently, Asian growers have adapted bottle culture, originally designed for the easy cropping of Enoki mushrooms (Flammulina velutipes), to the cultivation of many other gourmet and medicinal mushrooms, including Lion's Mane (Hericium erinaceus, Buna-shimeji (Hypsizygus tessulatzto, Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum), Wood Ears (Auricularia polytricha), and some varieties of Oyster mushrooms. The advantage of bottle culture is that the process can be highly compartmentalized and easily incorporated into the many high-speed production systems adapted from other industries. With the natural evolution of techniques, Asian cultivators have replaced bottles with similarly shaped, cylindrical bags. Many growers in Thailand, Taiwan, andjapan prefer this hybrid method. Liquid-inoculation of sterilized, supplemented medium allows for inoculation methods resembling the high-production systems seen in a soda pop factory. With reengineering, such high-speed assembly-line machinery could be retrofitted for commercial bottle and bag cultivation. (pp. 191-193)

(Hive Bee)
07-21-03 10:12
No 448834
      Answer to Robots question (from 1891!)  Bookmark   

in 1891, the first book on mushroom growing was published, and it shed new light on the theory of cultivation on horse manure compost. WILLIAM FALCONER, a mushroom grower and experimenter from Long Island, agreed with the recommendations of agricultural journalists and compiled their theories into Mushrooms: How to Grow Them; A Practical Treatise on Mushroom Culturefor Profit and Pleasure (available on-line at