xplozivetoyz (Hive Bee)
07-26-03 05:46
No 449936
      Just To Clarify....  Bookmark   

I just want to clarify some things I wrote a few days ago contained in a post entitled, "A Real Recipe".  First of all "A Real Recipe" is in fact a very "real" recipe that works and works quite well.  I know how to do three or four different variations of "The Birch" method and this is by far the best variation of the three or four variations that I know and have tried.  Im sure that someone else probably knows a better variation than I do and if that is the case then I hope that they too will post their method because I would certainly like to learn it.  After all, isnt learning and improving what we are all here for in the first place?
  I also know how to make Meth using the RP/I2 method and how to make Meth substituting Phosphorous in place of RP, but still using I2.  I hated cutting the strikers off those many, many thousands of books of matches that I did in order to get RP! lol!  Many thanks to the many Bees like Geeze, VE, Jacked, Wareami, Shorty, SD, Rhodium, Hands2full, P2M, and others who I cant remember for their many instructive posts.  To the ones still using RP I wish you many long, wet refluxes! To the others I hope your Phosphorous never runs low or gets put on "The substances to be watched list"! lol!
  Having said all of that, I just want to point out that I am by no means a chemist or scientist by any stretch of the imagination.  Im just a regular guy who got tired of paying good, hard-earned money to other people for doing something I could do myself.  It took a some work and study along with some failures before I was able to manage it, but I now no longer pay for Meth! And thats all I wanted in the first place!
  Though I know how to make Meth I only make it for myself.  Ive never sold any and never will. I would advise anyone contemplating selling Meth to think of another way to make money.  Having a felony conviction on your record and/or doing time in prison is definitely not "cool".  By making Meth you are already taking a chance on the aforementioned becoming a reality, but when you sell it you increase the odds of being caught for either manufacturing, distribution, or maybe both.  It just isnt worth it.  I dont like the laws and dont think that they are right, but I like jails and prisons even less!  Bee smart!
  It seems as if some people would like a caste system when it applies to the making of Meth.  Bircher's, RP'ers, etc, etc.  Thats a lot of nonsense most likely started by some low-life idiots that couldnt manage to make Meth using any method.  Im not married to any method and when someone shows me a faster, easier, and more productive method in which to make Meth I'll start using that method.  Im not a Birch'er, RP'er, etc, etc.  Im just a guy who knows how to make Meth and is always looking for a better way to do it.  When Meth is made correctly using any method the result is always the same; top quality Meth.  Birch made Meth is no better than RP made Meth and vice-versa.  If you think differently then I can assure you its all in your head and cannot be proven scientifically.
  Since I have real world experience making Meth three ways I think Im somewhat qualified, though not as qualified as many, to write about which method I found to be the easiest to learn and was and is the best way for ME to make Meth.  I found "The Birch" method to be much easier to learn than the RP/I2 method.  It was easier to learn, simpler and faster to do, plus it was more productive.  Believe me, learning the RP/I2 method by one's self and never actually seeing someone else do it is much harder than learning "The Birch" method by one's self. I know this for for a fact because thats basically pretty much how I had to learn. And even after one learns the RP/I2 method it is still a hell of a lot more work than "The Birch" method and takes a hell of lot longer before one gets the end product. Ive never been able to produce as much Meth using the RP/I2 method as I have been able to with "The Birch" method using equal amounts of EFED or PFED.  Maybe thats just me though. Im not choosing one method over another.  Im just telling you what works for me.  I personally dont care how you make Meth.  You can stick it up your ass if thats your wish.  "To each their own", I always say. lol!
  I want to make it perfectly clear that Anhydrous Ammonia is not something to be played with and should be handled with the utmost caution. It can kill you if you are not careful. Ive never heard or read of NH3 exploding as I've heard some people purport, but I know it can suffocate you very quickly by taking all the moisture out of your lungs thus stopping your ability to breath.  It can also burn(freeze) the hell out of you because it is super-cooled.  If you dont wear a proper breathing apparatus and/or work in a well ventilated area, NH3 can kill you before you even have a chance to crawl away from it. Always wear eye protection and the proper clothing. Just a few months ago, only a few miles from where I live, two young men(early twenties) died while they were attempting to steal NH3 from a large storage container when the hose from the large storage container broke away from the small container in which the young men were attempting to put the stolen NH3.  Mind you, this incident happened outside, not inside in an enclosed area. All the people in the surrounding area had to be evacuated.  When I wrote my my original post I just assumed only mature adults were reading posts here at the_hive.  I forgot that the young and also the not too bright also read these posts.  To those to groups I must re-emphasize that if you have no experience with NH3 leave it the hell alone!  Get someone who does have experience with it to show you the proper way in which to handle NH3.  Without the proper safety precautions you can cause injury and/or death to not only to yourself, but to also to others.
  I either buy my NH3 from a friendly farmer or make it myself.  Ive never stolen it and never will.  Stealing it is a good way to get shot and/or arrested.  Maybe both!
  A few things about "A Real Recipe".  First of all, in the part where I describe seeing the "gold color", you should know that when you see that "gold color" you had better be pouring your VM&P Naptha or Camp Fuel into the plastic two gallon container over the mixture quickly or you'll soon have a fire on your hands.  Mind you, not an explosion, just a fire.  Dont panic, just smother it with the wet towel or blanket that you should have had on hand for just such an emergency! The RXN will be ruined, but hopefully you will not have burnt anything down! And for chrisakes I hope you hadnt already opened the container that held the Ether! Never use Ether around an open flame!
  Before you gas your VM&P Naptha or Camp Fuel containing the "goods" bring it(VM&P, Camp Fuel) to a slow boil on a hot plate for a minute or two. You'll get much more product by doing so.
  I think thats about it.  I hope I havent left out anything. Good luck and bee safe!
  To those inevitable few idiots that Im sure will flame me, say I dont know what Im talking about, and how, "A Real Recipe" will never work, all I have to say to you is, "Fuck you stupid motherfuckers!" lol!!! Peace! ~XZT


(Hive Bee)
07-23-03 09:15
No 449264
         A Real Recipe....   Bookmark    

50 boxes of 20 count 120 mg pills(1000 pills)
30 Lithium batteries
NH3-just enough to hold Lithium strips and ground up pills(GUPS)
Coffee Filters
1 gallon of VM&P Naptha or Camp Fuel
1 gallon of Distilled Water
2 clear or semi-clear plastic(like a tea pitcher) 2 gallon containers
1 plastic pump-up bug sprayer
1 pint of Ether
Damp Rid
Muratic Acid

1. In one plastic container add NH3.
2. Add Lithium strips while slowly(gently) stirring a few at time.
3. Slowly add GUPS while slowly(gently) stirring.
4. When gold appears on top add VM&P Naptha or Camp Fuel.
5. About 15 to 20 minutes later the mixture will turn from cloudy to clear at which time pour in gallon of Distilled Water thus stopping the reaction.
6. Pour mixture thru 6 coffee filters into second plastic container.
7. Siphon off or siphon out the Distilled Water.
8. Gas, using Damp Rid and Muratic Acid mixed and contained within the plastic pump-up spray bottle.
9. Clean and dry container one very well and pour contents of container two through 6 coffee filters back into container one. Put just used filters off to the side since they are now full of white crystals. The white crystals are Meth.  Squeeze the hell out of the just used coffee filters containing the Meth. Dip them into bowl containing Ether for twenty seconds or so.  This will make the Meth harden into rocks. Let dry.
Repeat steps eight and nine.

If done correctly you will get back exactly however many grams of PFED you put in.  For simplicity's sake we'll say four ounces.  On foil this Meth leaves no residue whatsoever and is as clear as water.  It starts flaking up immediately as soon as the flame is removed and if one is not careful it will slide right off of the foil.
A friend was busted with some of this stuff and when it was tested for purity it was at least 80% pure or better because my friend was charged with possesion of ICE.
This isnt some bullshit recipe and this isnt the only way to do it.  This is just how one of SWIM's friends does it.  I just know he consistently gets back a 100% return and the purity is at least 80% or better because thats what it has to be before the Feds can label it as ICE.  Make your Meth however the hell you want.

~XploZiveToyz  "Children should never be permitted to play with explosive toys!"
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
07-26-03 08:52
No 449979
      damn man  Bookmark   

Damn man, Swims birch turned blue, and when he added Drops of H2O to quench it spat and popped violently as the H2O hit the NH3. Dumping a gallon of H2O in a rxn flask is asking for trouble in my opinion of course... 100% yields, Have you ever got 101% or higher? Another thing why would you add a non polar to the rxn before it is done reacting? It seems to me it would provide a place for precursors to hide from solvating electrons, Hell you could be reducing your non polar as well, but I might be wrong, just a thought.. And from what I understand any color of golden in the rxn flask is Li not being dissolved all the way? I might be wrong here as well maybe someone can clarify it for me.. And one more thing, being HCl in a reagent grade is 69% H2O you must have a past going on and a hell of a lot of damp rid soaking water out of that rig.. Why not HCl alone and maybe passing just the gas through damp rid? Generally recipes are for cakes and donuts not chemical reactions. Some here might take offense to the rxn being held in the same category as grandmas secret spaghetti sauce. Above you state that you have ran all these different reactions with great success but you ask a question in another post about scaling down batch sizes thinking cook times would reduce as well. Seems you would know the answer to that question seeing how di-versed at so many reactions you claim to be. I ain't trying to be a smart ass, (it comes naturally)
Just wondering?

Tighten Up!  (UH)
(Hive Bee)
07-26-03 13:43
No 450008
      Jacked, I Must Humbly Bow....  Bookmark   

 I must humbly bow to a man who has probably forgotten more than Ill ever know when it comes to the subject of making Meth. I can only base my opinions on my actual hands-on experiences and the reading that I have done on the subject.
  Your wired a lot differently than I am.  What I mean by that is that your a lot more scientifically minded than I am and I think you enjoy the science end of the processes as much as the end result.  Or almost as much! lol! Im more concerned with the end product than I am with the processes involved, but I have to know something about those processes to get the kind of end product that I want.  Oh well, it takes all kinds to make the world go around.
  I'll try to answer your questions as clearly as possible, but just remember that Ive already stated that I am no chemist or scientist by any stretch of the imagination.  Concerning your first statement about the H20 on the RXN;  Yes you would think that, but that isnt the case in my experience.  I wouldnt have believed it myself, but Ive seen it with my own two eyes and have done with my own two hands. I've never had one scary moment doing it this way.
  Concerning getting yeilds of 101% or higher.  The answer is yes.  Some might think that you are asking a trick question, but I know your not which most likely means that youve had that same experience yourself.  Ive talked to other people that it has happened to trying to figure out why it happened.  The rational part of my brain tells me that I obviously didnt get that kind of a yield unless when I gassed something else came thru along with the Meth, but Ill be damned if I could see it or taste whatever it was.  It burnt clear as a bell and left no residue on foil or glass.  This has only happened to me a few times.  I remember each time that it happened the weather was cold with very little humidity.  Im sure the weather played a part in this, but Ill be damned if I know what part.  Do you have a theory about this?
  The question you ask about adding a NP to the rxn before it is done reacting is a good question that I can only answer by saying that no you certainly wouldnt want to add the NP prematurely, but you also dont want the rxn overeacting either.  As you well know only experience with this method can tell you when the optimal time is to start slowing the reaction so that it doesnt over-react. 
  I believe what you say about the golden color being undisolved li, but I believe when it( the li) is exposed to the Oxygen in the atmosphere for any length of time it reacts with that Oxygen and flames up.  I could be totally  wrong about this, but thats how my unscientific mind sees it.  Thats why I said what I said about adding your VM&P or Camp Fuel quickly while stirring, so that it will not turn into a flame.  Ive found that fire is never good for your rxn! lol!
I believe that up until the time you add the H20 that the li is still reacting, albeit slower.
  I dont understand your question about 69% reagent grade H20 etc, etc, so I dont know how to answer it.
  I dont use very much Damp Rid at all.  Perhaps only a cup or two poured on to some very clean, very dry broken glass.  I pour just enough Muratic Acid to barely cover the Damp Rid.  I then put the lid on the spray bottle and shake vigorously for a minute or so. I then let it sit for ten minutes or so and then pump the spray bottle up. I then take the wand and gas as usual.  The good thing about the wand is that it has a trigger which allows you to release as little or as much of the gas as you like.  I try to make the gas as anhydrous a possible.  When Im done I put the spray bottle in the shed with the rest of my tools with none the wiser.  When Im ready to gas again I usually dont even have to add any more Damp Rid or Muratic Acid.  I just shake the spray bottle and pump it up again.  There would be no water in the rig as it would have already been siphoned off before before any gassing was ever done.  The water is separated and siphoned off or you can do the same thing(seperate and siphon off) with your VM&P or Camp fuel.
As for some here taking offense that I used the word "recipe", I sincerely apologize.  If my apology isnt good enough for them then I say, "Fuck'em if they cant take a joke and joke'm if they cant take a fuck!"  I have much better things to think about other than about whom Im offending or not offending.  They dont pay my bills so why would I really care one way or another what they may or may not think about me, or if they even think about me at all?  I never have and I wont start now.
  The statement that "Ive run all these different reactions with great success" is incorrect.  I never made that statement.  I only said that Ive used three methods and had the most success with "The Birch" method.  I also dont believe Ive ever posted anything about scaling down batch sizes thinking that would reduce cooking times.  Im almost dead certain Ive never posted anything concerning that subject, but I am getting older and the old memory isnt what it used to be.  If you can point that post out to me I will be forced to believe you, but until such a time I will have to say I never posted anything on that subject.
  From what Ive read of your posts I know you have used "The Birch" method on occasion and did so successfully.  I think most of your experience is with RP/I2 which I have already admitted is a lot harder to do(at least for me) and can almost be compared to say maybe, a great chef cooking the perfect dish... when it is done correctly.
  I dont know how much experience you have with "The Birch" method, but I know a lot of people make "The Birch" method a whole lot harder than it actually is and they get frustrated because of it.  I read Fester's and Mr Clean's methods and tried doing it those ways, but wasnt all that successful and it pissed me off. Finally an o'l redneck country boy told me how he did it and that got me pointed in the right direction and I saw the error of my city boy ways. lol!  He didnt do it the way I've described.  For instance, he didnt use any H20 at all and he let the NH3 and li react or three or so hours compared to my fifteen or twenty minutes.  I experimented and added the H20 parts after reading post after post here at the-hive about the need to not overeact and stopping the reaction with water.  I didnt come up with this overnight mind you.  It took a lot of failures and fuckups for it to have gotten to where it is now.  The thing that throws people off about "The Birch" method is how extrordinarily easy it is.  No matter how easy you may think it is, it is ten times easier than that.  That is why think LE is so down on Meth.  When it was just truckers and bikers doing it(Meth) there werent many problems associated with Meth because the people doing it could handle their drugs and the people making it were skilled artisans who learned their art through study, sweat, and hard work.  Today almost any person with an IQ the same number as their shoe size can make top quality gear which has put Meth in the hands of housewives, teenagers, Joe Blow, and other people who let the drug do them instead of them doing the drug.  I could be totally wrong about this, but thats my theory.
  Anyway, I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction.  You'll have to excuse my incorrect terminology and lack of scientific knowledge, but as I have explained earlier, "Im not wired that way!"
  As for your being a smart-ass coming naturally, I say, "Welcome to the club!" I was a smart-ass kid and now I find myself growing into a smart-ass old man.  So it goes.  Peace!

~XploZiveToyz  "Children should never be permitted to play with explosive toys!"
(Hive Addict)
07-26-03 16:13
No 450036
      A few pointers....  Bookmark   

1. No matter how many times you say "I am not a chemist" and "if they don't like it well fuck 'em" it does not give you a get-out clause for discrepancies in your posts.

2. If you're getting more out than you put in then it's impure product (or your calculations/scales/something are wrong)

3. Your method of producing anhydrous HClg still makes no sense...you submerge CaCl2 in HClaq with some broken glass in and shake it up and then you siphon something off from somewhere and...well I'm lost! Please explain.
Btw just how long does that magic ever yielding spray pump give up it's gaseous goodness?

4. You have provided the bare bones details of a synth and that always makes it sound much easier than it may actually turn out to be. Working with ammonia is no joke and for that reason alone the RP/HI reduction wins hands down every time for newbees IMHO
07-26-03 16:51
No 450038
      How do you approach a farmer and hit him up...  Bookmark   

How do you approach a farmer and hit him up for the good stuff? Do you tell him you need it to make fertilizer?

This, as I'm no thief, is the biggest obstacle to overcome if trying to get a birch going; I don't know any tweaker farmers, either.
(Hive Bee)
07-26-03 21:33
No 450071
      Easier Than You Even Imagine....  Bookmark   

1. I never claimed to be a technical writer. Im just trying to inform fellow bees.  Until someone who has a better command of the written word comes along, I guess your just stuck with me.  What descrepancies are you referring to?
2. I basically said the very same thing, just not in those words. I can assure you that Im not the only person this has ever happened to.  Im awaiting Jacked's reply as I believe this may have happened to him also.  I know that their is a scientific explanation, but damned if I know what it is.  I suppose it is possible that maybe my scale was incorrect or I misread it, but I dont think so.
3. Obviously Im not explaining myself very well so I suggest that you click on, I believe Video_Editor's name and pull up his very detailed explanation of what Im obvioulsy not doing very well explaining. When Im referring to siphoning off the H2O Im referring to the H2O in the container that held the VM&P Naptha or Camp Fuel.  There shouldnt be any H2O in the spray bottle.  It last about fifteen to twenty minutes per pump-up depending on how far down you hold the trigger.
4.As I said earlier, "However easy you may already think "The Birch" method, it is ten times easier than even that.  Im not joking or making light of your opinion, but if you were with me and saw me doing "The Birch" method I believe you would change your opinion.  Its that easy!  Although NH3 can be dangerous if mis-handled it is very easy to work with if one knows what they are doing.  A person can either wear a breathing apparatus and not worry about breathing NH3 at all or they can turn a regular box fan around backards and pointed and placed right next to an open window, turn it to "High" and do the reaction in back of the fan so that the fumes are sucked thru and blown out the open window to the outside.  The fumes dont travel very far, but I dont recommend doing this reaction in an apartment or crowded neighborhood!  Id say doing "The Birch" method is by far a lot easier to do than the RP/I2 method, plus it isnt nearly as time consuming. In forty-five minutes or an hour you would have top quality gear ready to smoke.  Doing the RP/I2 method you would not have even finished cleaning your pills in that aamount of time.  Believe me, one day you are going to see someone do "The Birch" method and your going to think to yourself, "God damned that is easy!  That guy really was telling the truth!" Peace!

~XploZiveToyz  "Children should never be permitted to play with explosive toys!"
07-26-03 23:32
      SWIM thinks if your doing the birch you should
(Rated as: redundant)
07-27-03 00:02
No 450103
      Gold in the Mix  Bookmark   

Is unreacted Li and if you take some and mash it on the sides of what you are mixing in, it will ignite. When you see this it means you had water in your mix. Not good.
(Hive Bee)
07-27-03 01:14
No 450111
      I Disagree....  Bookmark   

TURNTABLIST, I dont agree with you about this because at the point Im talking about there would be no water in the rxn whatsoever unless the NH3 somehow pulled the moisture out of the air nearby which would be possible on a very humid day, but not on days when the humidity level was very low.  You are right though about not wanting any moisture whatsoever in your rxn until your ready to stop your reaction. I think the contact between the atmosphere and the li is what causes a fire to ignite, but I could be wrong about this.  Peace!

~XploZiveToyz  "Children should never be permitted to play with explosive toys!"
07-27-03 01:36
No 450116
      NH3  Bookmark   

Chances are your NH3 contained some water before you ever started. Unless you dried the gas there is a 99% chance there is water in it.
(Hive Bee)
07-27-03 04:43
No 450140
      if you first pour your nh3 in a rxn vessel...  Bookmark   

if you first pour your nh3 in a rxn vessel along with your pill powder,you know pretty much LI can be added before the nh3 evaporates.This is generally where the fire can occure.If you have to,keep alittle nh3 back,if your mix is going dry before the LI dissolves add some nh3.Shit,I seen LI strips ignite from being exposed to air.Something else,I know I'll have some who say Im crazy but I actually put out a fire in my rxn vessel(LI ignited,nice little campsite fire  blush)with the nh3.Im sure I should have suffacated the fire but the nh3 worked great.XplosiveToys is correct in his method,it will work,however,I found that when your useing the p-phed HCl you really dont need to add h2o,when useing the freebase p-phed its a must-do thing.The freebase p-phed will over reduce if the rxn isnt stopped.Pour your nh3 in a SS stock pot add your ground up your pills,next add your LI strips.stir stir stir.When the blue has faded add some colemans camp fuel and put that on a electric hotplate/burner.The colemans will still be ice cold so let it heat up(20 minutes or so)till the colemans is warm.When its warm you know the nh3 is gone.Strain,filter and gas.Sulferic acid w/table salt in a pump sprayer(minus the tube thats inside the sprayer)works wonders.2oz in a little over an hour,start to finish,aint bad.Just my 2 cents worth.Yeah there is a thousand and one different variations and each probably works.Do the one that works for you.

(Hive Bee)
07-27-03 05:20
No 450144
      thanks SlyDog  Bookmark   

Sounds straight. Might you disclose how many strips per ounce pfed you use? (or gram per gram or however?)


Honi soit qui mal y pense
(Hive Bee)
07-27-03 10:31
No 450192
      Li  Bookmark   

Rag, I use seven batteries per 250 120 mg pills.  Since I buy the batteries in packs of four Ill sometimes use eight batteries if Im only doing a small batch.  At Rhodium's site I believe Mr. Clean answers your question about how much li in greater detail.
  TURNTABLIST, I agree with you about the moisture aspect, but I think the contact with the air is what causes the fires.  Whats your opinion on this subject?

~XploZiveToyz  "Children should never be permitted to play with explosive toys!"
(Hive Bee)
07-27-03 18:47
No 450274
      RaG,the answer varies,you see,if you just...  Bookmark   

RaG,the answer varies,you see,if you just grind up your pills youll have an excess of inactives,not to mention if your using 30mgs,60mgs or 120mg..If you cook the pills down and have clean or semi-clean p-phed HCl,SWIM uses about 4 batteries per oz.When the ground up pills are used,go with about twice that(by the way xplosivetoy,havent you seen the AA LI sold in the ever so handy 8 per pack,its like they was thinking of ussmile).When useing the HCl p-phed its damn near impossible to over reduce your p-phed.It is quite easy to over-do the freebase though.Just add and stir,stirring is key.

(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
07-28-03 06:26
No 450376
      reply  Bookmark   

Yeah that has happened to me as well.

Tighten Up!  (UH)