CharlieBigpotato (Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
08-23-04 16:53
No 526942
      possible problem:     

if one uses double mbrp to acheive decent rp amounts, especially in a small rxn of the hot and dry type, one can end up with a sludge that simply isn't fluid enough to avoid clumps that stick to a flask's walls. in a lwr, this is of much less concern.
(Hive Bee)
08-23-04 18:10
No 526950
      Clumps could bee a prob     

While swim has never ran into this problem, he can see how a newbee could.  The most tedious part of the push/pull IMHO is the first stage, if not enough water it will clump up like Charlie said, too much and it won't fire.  Heat also has a lot to do with this, too much heat too quickly will cause the reagents to clump up and the cook may bee forced to add a bit more water.

This is why LWR is highly recommend, no stages, just set it and forget it, well better remember it actually.wink

  I'd like to have her right there on floor with the 'ol in/out, real savage.
(Hive Bee)
08-23-04 20:07
No 526961
      Hey! Really cool, thanks for all the replies -     

Hey! Really cool, thanks for all the replies - this turns out to be a real yeilding thread - to think that i was covering my ears against all that slaps i was nearly sure to gain when i looked in again first after posting ...wink

Very helpful in general and in special (SWIM's still not in the mood to scrape some MBRP again ... or at least not with acetone, next time he'll try simple Methanole like mentioned above)
Thanks again
I hope SWIM will proceed this time, he will report - maybe it turnes out to become a usable nano.

By the way: I'm still trying to understand the mechanisms behind: Would a LWR also work with, say, "Push/Pull Equipment" like descibed by Worlock instead of a balloon?? like those two gas cannisters put together, and so on?
Is the balloon used needed to reflux? or is it just used to prevent all that stinky gas from escaping? And IF it is necessary to reflux, how does this work with the above mentioned "Worlock apparatus" ???

And i read in another thread, if there's not enough free time to run the full 48h at once, the reaction can be splitted (today 4h, tomorrow 3, and so on) -
is this true? and practicable?

Anyway, thanks a lot!!smile

-Step right up the stage and hold SWIM's ears again to satisfy this weird man -
(Hive Bee)
08-24-04 02:56
No 527002
      No ballon, condensor     

A reflux needs a condenser by definition.  One could make a condenser or just actually opt to buy the glass ware!

However on nano reactions ballons can be used as make shift condensers.  Ask Squidippy or Ware. 

Here is a great example of a nano reaction using a ballon from our very own Wareami from post Post 450785 (wareami: "OrangeBowl TailGait Bash", Stimulants)

1.2ml dh2o
1.2g E
1.2g MBRP(2nd run)
3g I2(from tinc)

Combined dh2o, I2, MBRP in very small liqueur bottle and stirred.
No noticable activity after 10 min.
Added E and stirred thoroughly.
Capped with balloon attached to 4inch tube
Put on 105°C heat in oilbath and left to cook 24hr.
Pulled off heat, uncapped and stirred.
Still liquidy. Ibee likes it more solidified but Smelled done. Could have gone the extra 6 hours but Ibee was only concerned with presense of orangegaak, not unreacted.
75ml dh2o added, rp fell out. Heated then filtered.
clear light yellow post-rxn fluid
Added dilute naoh splashwise.
Turned white...then curdled...then moved UP into warm naptha.
No sign of sign of emulsion after 3rd NP pull and spent post-rxn solution was clear next day.
Much to Ibee's delight...the resulting crystals upon evap were meth with just a hint of unreacted.
Bioassay lasted sleepless from a thurs midnight to sunday around 9:00pm when the slumberjacks stopped by for a visit!
Not too shabby for a gram!
Good clean buzz.

  I'd like to have her right there on floor with the 'ol in/out, real savage.
(Hive Addict)
08-24-04 02:56
No 527003
      PEG - Instigator of the LWR Era     

Just historical/socio behavioral note here.

Around 2 to 3 years ago there was a flood of newer varieties and concentrations of polyethylene glycol which was released into the pill gakking scene. This seemed to be the main motivating factor that got the LWR trend happeneing. And thusly there was a decent preiod of time in which it was generally thought that the shorter and "hot" cooking  habits of the past would bee put in their graves permanently.

But as pill cleaning techniques multiplied due to the introduction of even more hideous gakks it seems as if many bees have now become proficient in getting the precursor into a state in which the older short cooks are beginning to rear their heads again.

For overall quality and yeilds a good 48 hour LWR still can't be beat. But if one is in a situation in which a long cook is not practical it seems that the short cooks can again bee done.

That is if you are truly getting the precursor super clean.

PS. This post can also function as a new addendum to Post 494521 (ChemoSabe: "A dead animal in the US", Stimulants)

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
(Of Counsel)
08-24-04 06:50
No 527034

MBRP, from the matchbooks Squidippy says one needs to use, extracted in the manner that he details in his posts on the subject, will work just fine at 0.5 first use, 0.8 second use, 1.2 third. Add fresh red after that.

I recall, Chemo, my first LWR's that I finally allowed to go the distance of 48 hours seemed to break down the PEG that came through with the pseudo. The PEG was not a motivator for me to try the LWR. The quest for better yeilds of better product was, and is, the reason for doing the LWR.

I too will cook short on a nano. I will not say the quality of a dryer cook is on par with a that from a LWR. It is not. Period.  A recent eight hour reflux produced some stunninly effective methamphetamine. All the same, SWIG knows is he had refluxed that batch, it would have only gotten better.

mostly harmless
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-24-04 07:20
No 527039

Swim has ran the push pull using as little as .3:1:1. The second phase takes a little longer to set itself up and is not as violent as is using .8 and up LG...
 MBRP is a cook of a different story. No one bee does things in the exact same manor and depending on many variables determines the actual quality of your MBRP..
 Even when its the best possible recovered there is still weight difference due to specks of glue and glass added for friction. Ones weight at the final might be way different than the actual amount of RP entering the reaction.
 The amounts of MBRP used in your reaction will haft to be based on your own experiences, the ratios given are just guidelines. A place to start....

Tighten Up!  (UH)
(Hive Addict)
08-24-04 07:32
No 527041
      The Main Motivator     

Hey Geez,

While I'm certain that what you say for yourself concerning habitually adopting the LWR as a standard procedure is true I would still stand behind this statement...

Had it not been for the advent of the introductions of the newer forms of PEG as pill adulterants the LWR would never have achieved the popularity it had at it's peak (which has now passed).

For many hobbyist chemists (aside from a few like geez) changing longtime habits is often like pulling teeth and so was the trend to switch over to the LWR. But change people did once such lousy results became the norm from the hot short recipes.

Necessity is the mother of all painful habit changes.

related post Post 495438 (ChemoSabe: "Onkle Fester axed....", Stimulants)

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
08-24-04 08:45
No 527052
      SWIM is wondering what sort of difference an...     

SWIM is wondering what sort of difference an LWR yields in relation to quality and despite this being a very basic question does an LWR help in relation to removing todays GAKK's?

To bee or not to be
(Hive Addict)
08-25-04 19:27
No 527286
      The LWR bennie fits :•ž     

Anyone have any noticably more efficient RP results when adding some aluminum shards like Worlock suggests?
Chemo: It's always been Ibee's experience that the addition of aluminum assists in scrubbing the RP especially when gaak has overwhelmed the precursors in rxn. It creates one of those scenarios when yer gear comes out and high fives ya in the end saying "Nice Save"!laugh
There was much controversy surrounding this aluminum addition and it's a sitution you should have a reason for employing it or you'll likely never see the benefits of using it.
Ibee's lived it and still swears by it under certain conditions.
The aluminum does impart it's own smell and will interfere somewhat with that "done" smell bees are accustomed to....but creates it's own distinct done smell when all is converted.
Many bees don't have an exploratory mindset and won't sit still for observing and documenting advantage over disadvantage on the pioneering trails to discovery. Especially with results that produce subtle differences.
If the RP ratio was lacking or gaak threatens the AWE means introduce a few broken UP poptops for that added Umph needed to reach the finish line!
For those that still aren't sold on this aluminum addition, add a peace  of aluminum to a rxn in progress and observe the reactants interaction with the aluminum.
That smell note is important. Pay attention to it!

As for the PEG issue being a primary motivator that lead the LWR's developement? Not so! Although the LWR did turn out to be a best case scenario that spanned across and dealt with many problem areas making the window of success much bigger than the narrower windows at the time created by some encapsulating persistant gaaks.
Ibee was a bee that never had peg problems like most bees experienced and reported.
But most bees weren't employing the extraction methods that Ibee utilized toward sidestepping most gaaks.
And most importantly, part of Ibee's experimentation centered around recovery in any given situation pre and post rxn extraction! This entailed creating common failures scenarios in order to develope workarounds for those destined to encounter them.
Ibee learned more from those experiments than he could have ever hoped to have learned from all the successes.
Being a real "GO Getter" unfortunately, never centered solely around getting the GO for himself as much as it centered around helping to increase the chances for others to dream successfully.
Experiences that Ibee wouldn't change for the world.
That may sound egotistical or grandious to some, but in a community of info sharing and giving back, you can't give what you don't have.
And on an ever changing dreamscape, thanks to LE and PharmChemists, that old clich`e "If you can't keep UP, take notes!" just won't cut it.

The LWR reflux was born accidently out of a need to get at the bottom of what caused "ShootingSpark-SpaceDope".
If it weren't for Geezmeister's confirming reports and assessments on heat being a primary cause for, Ibee would have never lowered the heat creating a need to cook longer or the need to hydrate the rxn above normal dh2o ratio to keep the rxn from drying out.

It seems fitting that Geez should be the first OldDawg to employ the shift and experience the differences that Ibee was claiming and shoving down bees throats with his persistant notoriously atagonistic character and demeanor, otherwise known as Wareamiesewink

The most exciting and funnesttongue part of chemistry, is that no matter how many combinations are factored in, there is always room for improvement and improvision at any given stage.
And when you're like Ibee, this creates an endless amount of satisfaction and joy at every junction when a new rock is discovered and fully explored to it's full potential and worth.
Giving back is the easy part when you've already been given so much by those that took the time to take you under their wing along the way.
You could say that Ibee learned every thing he needed to know by way of the sparks he received from three exceptionally inspiring great GhettoMaster veterans of the Hive.
Without those three Chemhack masters of the skill, there would be no Ibeeware or the Kidz

And i read in another thread, if there's not enough free time to run the full 48h at once, the reaction can be splitted (today 4h, tomorrow 3, and so on) -
is this true? and practicable?

Wimpy:The rxn can be left in a state of "suspended animation" indefinately until it's complete.
Ibee felt reluctant in the beginning to leave a rxn completely unattended when duty called and he'd be off at work.
He'd shut down the heat, leave the ballon on, and continue heat every 12hours for another 8hr of cooking until the 48hr total cooking time was reached. Usually this would end up being what he liked to call a 4 day cook.
There have been some overkill experiments early on that were 5 and 7 day total constantly cooking rxns.
As stated...these tended to be WAY overkill!
But yes...a drive-by shooting style can be employed whereby you can shoot for 6 hours....hide for 12...shoot for another 12....hide for 8....shoot for another 4.....etc...etc....until the deed is done.
Ibee never shoots for less than a total 36hrs with the heat applied to the rxn.

SWIM is wondering what sort of difference an LWR yields in relation to quality and despite this being a very basic question does an LWR help in relation to removing todays GAKK's?

Yields vary from cook to cook and rely more heavily on work-up skill and the cleanliness of the feed than the rxn itself.
Ibee's yields in the 70% range were common during HF/PP rxn daze.
Today with a LWR ibee will yield in the 85% sometimes 90% range but his skills have gradually excelled due to practice making perfect.
Ibee would say a 10% yield difference, on average, is noticably a good reason to adopt the LWR approach over the HF/PP.
The biggest reason behind Ibee's unforgivable, almost nagging insistance for bees to switch to the LWR, had nothing to do with yields however.
It had more to do with the quality and strength experienced coupled with the main reason what set Ibee off in that experimental direction to begin with.
The Peace Of The Rxn and the elimination of the BranchPeeple/Black Helicopter Syndrome that threatened to be Ibee's demise if he continued to see fuckerz that weren't thare!blush
Not a living soul can convince you are not seeing what your mind insists you are experiencing at the time! And you can do some fucked up shit during those episodes!
And if they weren't on to you as a result of the hallucinations to begin with, they will be onto you by seeing your reaction to them non-existant bastards if you follow them into the non-reality zone!smile
Nothing is scarier than meth induced paranoia.
The other causes of paranoia are easier to discern for what they are.
Ibee's a hardcore part-taker of the goodz and several things can cause meth-amphetamine psychosis.
•Sleep deprevation halucination(multiple days UP!)
•Using to excess(*over-dosing*, not in the conventional definition meaning death)
•Impurities created and imparted to the meth(The so-called meth-induced variety not to be confused with using to excess)
This last case is the type that hits ya right outta the box on the first hit and sux worse than your worst nightmare.
Going to hell in a hand-basket doesn't even come close to an accurate description. "Bad trip" comes close, but still pales in comparison.
Makers of meth have control over this and Ibee's found that control in his own gear by utilizing the LWR.
This continues to be the course of some intense research in an effort to understand it better thereby getting an eventual handle on it.
Unfortunately for Ibee, he can't avoid the spectrums of extreme until he's through with his experimentation.

To date...this condition created by the third impurity-induced cause has been arrested for Ibee when the LWR is used to reduce pfed.
He may or may not ever get a handle on the first two causes...
But stay tooned and glued to yer tubes if ya wanna find out!
Much of what comes from Ibee's corner can be viewed as ground-breaking at times, unless your there first hand as one of the lab monkey guinnea animals....For them it can be described as "Earth-Shatteringly Mind Boggling"!
Long Live The Hive!

Remember, it's not,
"Hi, how are you?" it's
"How high are you?"
(Hive Bee)
08-25-04 19:46
No 527291
      Hey wareami, thank you, very enlightening!!     

Hey wareami, thank you, very enlightening!!
What do you mean with overkill? i mean: can it be destroyed by cooking too long?
Or is this just a language based misunderstanding? If so i'm sorry :)
Thanks again!

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Hive Addict)
08-25-04 20:24
No 527298

"OverKill" meaning unnecessary!
5 and 7 day cooks won't hurt a thing provided the reactants don't dry out.

Remember, it's not,
"Hi, how are you?" it's
"How high are you?"
(Of Counsel)
08-25-04 23:58
No 527333
      PEG and the LWR     

Had it not been for the advent of the introductions of the newer forms of PEG as pill adulterants the LWR would never have achieved the popularity it had at it's peak (which has now passed).

PEG played a part in getting me to finally do a long reflux, but the part it played was a different one than you assume. PEG extracting pseudo from pills a good deal more time consuming and tedious than it had been. The method that worked for me involved soaks, boils, an a/b extraction, and as many recrystallizations of the pseudo as it took to get clean spikes; I could not do this in a single session in the lab. If I waited to Friday to buy pills I wouldn't have dope that weekend. This situation convinced me that I should do my pseudo extraction for the next reaction when I started a reaction. This gave me a week, on average, to extract the pseudo.

After some experimentation, I developed an extraction process that gave me clean pseudo that had been recrystallized in alcohol until the pseudo resembled brads by Tuesday or at the latest, Wednesday. This gave me two days down time before I would have started a reaction.  I realized that if I could set up the reflux so it could be done without me being there all the time, I could start a reflux on Wednesday and show up Friday evening to work it up.

The fire safety issues were solved for the most part by  using a cool-to-the-touch deep fat fryer for my heat source. This unit had a lid covering the top, which I modified to hold the neck of a round bottom flask. I fitted a condenser in the flask neck (above the closed lid) and experimented with the temperature setting I needed on the fryer to push the reaction in the manner I wanted.

So, PEG was the gakk that eliminated time from my list of excuses for not doing a long reflux. The convergence of moving the lab to a more rural location -- (the lower risk of detection eliminated another excuse).
Osmium's comments in the "Meth Potentcy" thread--  and another thread or two that were active at the same time -- persuaded me to try the reflux method.

I only had to do one to be convinced that it was far superior to the way I had done my rP reactions to that time. 

I will do a short, hot nano cook. I frankly don't see the virtue of refluxing a gram of pseudo for two days. Then again, I never saw the sense in doing a nano at all until my state made Pseudo a schedule V drug and limited the amount one could purchase in any thirty day period. 

And you tell met that the LWR has passed its popularity peak?  When did that happen? laugh I don't care whether it is popular. It produces better dope than the other rP/I2 approaches. It just takes longer.

The long reflux should help degrade the polymers that carry over during extraction of the pseudo.  I can't say that the shorter cooks are any better than before; I've done a few this year, but my preference is still for the reflux.

mostly harmless
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 03:25
No 527388
      Kicked by a Dead Horse     

Hey Ibee,

I didn't state that the PEG crisis was the actual source of the development of the LWR only the essential reason it first became popular. I think both Rhodium and Stonium had warned of it's great efficacy years before that only nobody seemed to care.

But once the PEG era came through many more ears opened to those earlier recommendations. (Initially Ibee were the ears which opened and then he became a one bee campaign to "spread the word". It did take some time but the word did indeed spread)

And Geez, you were ahead of the pack on the extraction front with your waterless A/B which but I think tyvek was still the hippest (read as widespread and popular) new form of extraction when the new PEGs hit. Whoever discovered that a panning style rinse of the psuedo with acetone could get enough of the PEG out for an LWR to do the rest was a godsend.

This tecnique (tyvek/tone rinse/LWR) also _fully_ defeated both brands of orange gakk and anything else introduced up to polysorbate 80. It was really nice for swim's buddy to not have to make any adaptations whatsoever once the Orange Gakks came thru. He actually had troule comprehending why so many were have trouble with the OG's when tyvek/panning tone rinse/LWR had already been quite established.

Polysorbate 80 was a milestone gakkbitch though. But thank the meth gods for the techniques that clear that crap out.

It was only after swim's buddy was able to defeat PS80 that the short cooks again became a doable thing so in that regard he can almost thank the pill manufacturers for the introduction of PS80. It was also after that that there was never any shortage of pills available at the stores.

I think both PS80 and euradigit put most of the local cooks out of business.

Then came the huge new flood of sweet smelling mexican "nitro-rock" which only seems to grow by the day. The new gakks have been bad for the pseudo pill business but have been a huge boon to the Mexican cartels.

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 04:22
No 527392

I didn't state that the PEG crisis was the actual source of the development of the LWR.

I knew that!tongue
I felt it necessary to correct this following statement since PEG was never a problem for The Kidz.

Around 2 to 3 years ago there was a flood of newer varieties and concentrations of polyethylene glycol which was released into the pill gakking scene. This seemed to be the main motivating factor that got the LWR trend happeneing.

To which I replied....wink

As for the PEG issue being a primary motivator that lead the LWR's developement? Not so!

For many...Tween80 and PEG were sidestepable opponents with labor intense extractions, as Geez points out.

OrangeI and II gaaks were slightly more tricky but once the application of JD was employed, those too were kicked the curb until the formulations started to include bases in mix that fused the JD to the pfed. This was quickly followed by the eudragit infestations we see today.

Bees sure have come along way in few short years and I wonder just how much $$$, on the whole, bees have cost the industry by sidestepping their denaturants/adulterants along the way.tongue

Remember, it's not,
"Hi, how are you?" it's
"How high are you?"
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 07:57
No 527431
      Geez Helps Kick the Dead Horse Again     

I forgot that to defeat either OG2 or something similar which appeared almost a year ago swim's buddy had to add Geezmeisters xylene precip trick to the olde tyvek/acetone pan rinse/LWR formula. Then came the dreaded PS80 era.

It's nice to know now that if swim's buddy can't be using up that stove space for a full two days straight that a shorter duration can still do the trick again.

PS. Swim's buddy has still not ventured to experiment with Nippon Dryer. I think "whatever works first" is how he decides what to stick with and something else always worked before he was cornered into trying it. I think he was the only one left still having good results with tyvek at the dawn of 2004.

PS2 - Beez on the whole have not cost the industry a dime in my book. They have _helped_ it to thrive massively. The industry is it's own worst enemy with their gakks. Just look how full those pseudo product shelves are now with the astounding success of ps80 and euradigit. This should signal to them that if they want the big profits they've got to release crackable pills.

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-26-04 16:17
No 527490
      al in the mix     

Al in the mix don't do shit for a reaction but maybe at the end of it you wont haft to use as much NaOH to basify it.. It was said to kick start a slow starting reaction but heat is the kicker not the Al. If your reagents are in that poor a shape that your dumping Al in to kick start it you need to concentrate on the precursors a little closer and or try freebase pseudo instead of the HCl... There will be no need for kick starting that one...
 Back in the day If Swim thought worlock was wiping his ass with his thumb before a cook to ensure a good run he would have been doing the same thing over and over again. Swim would eventually learn that shitty thumbs have very little to do with reactions, even though it was still in print arcived some wear..

Tighten Up!  (UH)
08-27-04 16:24
No 527786
      rp/i2 amounts     

First I am lazy and only read the first post so if anyone has said this or changed the topic , I dont know about it. Swim has found that it is better safe than sorry. Buy the extra box of matchbooks and bottle of tinct. Swim uses a little more mbrp than he has Psuedo and uses 1:1 i2:E. This is probably excessive but I am positive it's not to little. The RP you get back and I2 is easy if you drive the extra distance to find 7% tinct, however psuedo isnt easy. So swim says use extra easy stuff to make sure none of the hard shit is wasted.
(Hive Bee)
09-01-04 21:33
No 528912
      Just one more to be sure, as i'm still a lousy     

Just one more to be sure, as i'm still a lousy newbee:
Is it possible to use a balloon as a condenser also in a small (say, 5g E) HDR?

I read a lot on LWR, HDR, the differences and so on, but i still get no grasp of the mechanism (more the physical stuff) behind a push/pull reaction especially in case of meth(er ... are there others? i think so?). What are those setup's good for? i mean, i don't doubt the use of all that things, i simply do not understand what's exactly going on there. Are those aparatus (like those tied together gas cannisters or those tube connected glass vessels) needed to compensate the resulting pressure, to collect parts of the reaction or ... doh?

Any advice appreciated(especially on the balloon thing, as there isn't much e to waste left! :))

yes, i know, this should be in the newbee forum if anywhere, but as there's still the lex meth-posts-to-stim-forum i ask it here ...

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Of Counsel)
09-01-04 23:54
No 528946
      use a hose too     

Five grams is probably pushing the limits for endurance of most balloons attached to a flask neck. Use a short length of hose and put a fan blowing on the hose. Attach the balloon to the hose, the hose to the flask... the balloon will last the reaction most likely.

Push-pull units are gas traps that help limit odors from the reaction. They also steal HI from the reaction which led to most push pull people using more precursors than needed for a LWR. Don't get me wrong. You can make good meth with a properly done push-pull. I've done it too many times to deny it. You can make better meth at your level of experience by a long wet reflux. Use the ratios I recommend or those Ware recommends, or those VideoEditor recommends.

There is a range of variables to this reaction. The ratios are interdependent with the length of the reaction and its temperature; variations in the quality of the precursors affect the actual ratios in the flask. There is not a single correct way to do this reaction. There is a envelope of success that stretches with time from short to long, with temperature from low to high, with the amount of water and the quality and ratio of the precursors.

There are also as may ways to fall outside the envelope of success as there are ways to fall within it. For now, pick your method and follow the advice of the individual bee whose method you have chosen to use. Follow that bee's method from Go to Whoah without deviation. Whether its Placebo's method, or Jacked's, Worlock's, Ware's, Video Editor's, Scottydog's, Barkingburro's, Squidippy's, Curbshot's, mine, or any of a hundred other successful bees who have posted their methods here... pick one and follow it.

After a few hundred times you'll have a good enough feel for the reaction to play with ratios and times, water, temperature, etc. But if you are going to do it, just do it. You won't learn how it really works until you do it. You can read every post in the forum and you won't understand it at all until you've done a few of them. You will fail now and again, and if you are working dry and fast, you will fail as often as not at first.

To shorten the learning curve, pick a method and follow the advice for that method from start to finish.

I strongly recommend the long wet reflux to you, at your level of experience. I recommend it heartily to everyone, particularly newbees. It has the widest envelope of success with the best yield of the purest product of any method you will employ using red phosphorous and iodine. And that isn't an opinon, its a fact. If you want a tweaky product, keep it dry and start it hot. You'll have more failures, but the cranksters will buy all you can make. They enjoy peeking out of window blinds and hearing voices of people who aren't there.

I'd rather just do meth, myself.

mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
09-02-04 20:24
No 529175
      First thanks everybody, and geezmeister thanks     

First thanks everybody, and geezmeister thanks again, you're right: time of talking is gone - it's time to act!! (blare of trumpets!) laugh
I guess SWIM will follow the instructions in that post from wareami mentioned by abominator some posts ago as this fits SWIMS needs best (he's a lousy little amateaur without a lab and so on (whine)), maybe he will try to scale it up with the mentioned ratios to fit his last 5g of clean pharma E powder. Guess that should be possible without killing the ballon(why? simply wishfull thinking, doh) . After that (if so) he will have to experiment with pill- or ephedra extraction, but that will be another story. Thanks again, will post the results!

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Hive Addict)
09-03-04 04:03
No 529257
      Packin a Punch!     

Anything 5g or over should stand UP nicely if a PunchBalloon is used instead of standard sized balloons!
And as Geez pointed out.
A 4-6inch tube attached directly to the flask and then fitted with a standard balloon will far much better than a balloon directly afixed to the flask.

09-03-04 14:17
No 529334
      Instead of using a flask with some tubing and...     

Instead of using a flask with some tubing and a bloon on top, would it not be easier to use a volumetric flask with a bloon on top?

To cool the colum you could wind some plastic hose around it and run cold water through it.

 Just an idea, as I've no idea if this would work.
(Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
09-03-04 15:38
No 529338
      read me     

check out my post on rxn containment. it might help explain this. even if you don't use the method hinted at.
but let the damn air out of the system first. do it outside.
(Hive Bee)
09-04-04 05:24
No 529502
      Re: To cool the colum you could wind some...     

To cool the colum you could wind some plastic hose around it and run cold water through it.

 Just an idea, as I've no idea if this would work.

gluecifer used to use a set up quite similar to this with alot of success.


(Hive Bee)
09-04-04 05:50
No 529507
      If you take some I2 (labgrade) and drop it...     

If you take some I2 (labgrade) and drop it onto some RP should it react straight away? and if it doesnt then it means the RP isnt clean enough?

Your an individual just like everyone else
09-04-04 05:56
No 529509
      Re: the hitman     

right on man

or the appropriate shape beer bottle

then the flask is a functional part of the condenser

this bee would wrap a little foil around the base of that volumetric flask, for insulation, blow air across the neck of the flask with a fan !
(Hive Addict)
09-04-04 10:09
No 529525
      Fire one!     

If you're not sure if RP is clean enough, don't marry it with I2 to determine as you risk losing both if it's not.
Ibee takes his guitarpick and dips the tip into the RP pile and transfers a minute amount to a watchglass or a microscope slide and sets flame to it. You'll know how good the RP is by watching how quickly and evenly it burns.
Ibee always does this test on 3rd and 4th run RP after cleaning as it starts losing color from use.
If the RP takes a long time to light or doesn't light evenly and thoroughly...the RP pile needs more cleaning.

(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 20:24
No 531158
      Thanks for all the hints, but it shows up SWIW     

Thanks for all the hints, but it shows up SWIW still could use some help:

After a small reaction with LG E, LG I2 and MB Phosphorous everything worked as he expected, but after basifing and later mixing with Naphta (no better NP at hand) and acidifying with HCL to about PH 7 and some swirling (ok, maybe there was some shaking, tooblush) there's a thin layer of white "foam" still resisting 24h after the last swirling between the NP and the aquaous layer ...

Is this bad? Or can it just be ignored? the whole batch isn't worth talking about, but as it's not his first try swim would like to bring this one to an succesful end ... just once, oh ....*#++*
Any hints anyone?
Thanks a lot!

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Of Counsel)
09-13-04 20:41
No 531162
      that emulsion or whatever layer...     

Separate it into an evap dish and let it air dry. Cover it with an agressive nonpolar like tolly or xylene, and let the solvent extract any amines that may be there. Then gas the solvent for the salt form. Sometimes you get a surprising amount, sometimes you get nothing. Sometimes its an emulsion which has trapped some of you meth, sometimes its just trash from the NaOH and/or the reaction. Emulsions are mixes of polar and nonpolar layer bubbles that don't tend to break down; the solids are usually trash that float to the bubbles. Sometimes the trash holds meth, but more usually the emulsions hold some. 

Nothing unusual in having a layer of solids at the interface. You try to not have one, but sometimes you do. There are worse fates in the universe.

mostly harmless
09-13-04 20:51
No 531163

Swim used mbrp and it didnt react at ALL until heat was added... then it did just fine after that.
(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 21:00
No 531164
      hey geezmeister, really thanks a lot, was...     

hey geezmeister, really thanks a lot, was already thinking i'd spoiled it again -phew :)
clandestine: it started to react without heat, but only very low. it's done with the ratios mentioned by wareami some posts above for a HDR under most primitive conditions, with stuff like juice cans and tea candles ... laugh(as swim simply has not enough time alone to do a LWR in these days).

Again, thanks a lot to all, results, if any, will be posted, maybe they'll be of any use for i don't know who ...(?unlikely, but well, who knows?)

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Hive Bee)
09-16-04 20:06
No 531646
      If one had a lot of water in the end, what...     

If one had a lot of water in the end, what would be the highest possible temp to evaporate it? would the meth take any damage by temp, and if so at what temp? would 60 C still be ok or already too much?

- Beware of the Morphail Effect! -
(Of Counsel)
09-16-04 20:22
No 531650
      visible vapor     

The last time I checked, meth HCl did not vaporize at 100C. A temperature below that is recommended, actually. If you have a little visible vapor coming off the evap dish with no fan blowing on it, you are probably as hot or a little hotter that is prudent. Keep the fan blowing, keep the temp down. You don't want to boil the water off, just evaporate it.

mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
09-18-04 12:09
No 531966

Thanks very much - worked very well, but what a f*n dream this turned out to be in the end- in swims dream to see a real dud all you had to do was to take a look in the encyclopedia under "wimpy - the dud(- bomb etc.) who smashed the beaker with all his product in."
Everything else worked great, thanks for all the help, but, well ...
200mg pure white crystal-like residue was left on the ground of the second evap-container after evaporating the last left few mililiters. not tested yet.

so, dear children what is to be learned from this? keep what you choose for your lab room tidy or you will end up like like the poor dud w. !

- I give up - shoot me! -
(Hive Addict)
09-18-04 20:26
No 532014
      Shyte Happens!     

Like I recently shared with Geez....
"If I ever lose my sense of humor...Shoot Me"
Under no circumstances would I allow someone to shoot me other than that!tongue
What's the big deal? So you're floors will be climbin the walls for a spell!blushlaugh
It's happened to the best of us!
Ibee was more upset at losing the glassware than he was at losing the product!
It teaches lessons in carelessness AND SAFETY!
Learn from it!
But don't give UP!
This is AWE about GETTING UP not giving UP!wink

You Laugh at me because I'm different
I laugh at you because you look the same